Parliament Workbench

Petition · PE01503 · Session 4

Review of A9 speed camera proposals'

Closed Submitted 29 Jul 2013
Signatures
0
2,007 online signatures with a country
Comments
192
Considered
3 meetings
in the Official Report

What it asks

The A9 Safety Group recently proposed an Average Speed Camera System on the A9 in order to reduce fatalities. This group belives this is the incorrect decision based on official statistics which show that breaking thew speed limit accounts for only 2% of accidents on the A9, whereas overtaking manouvres account for nearly 50% of A9 accidents. We belive that the A9 Safety Group has not investigated adequate alternatives to deal with the majority cause of A9 accidents and the modelling used to propose the A9 system is flawed. We belive there should be a full parliamentary debate on the proposal along with the reformation of the A9 Safety Group to allow representation from car drivers, who make up over 95% of A9 road users, yet have not been involved in an A9 Safety Group meetings. We belive as the evidence is flawed and does not have full parliamentty support, the A9 Speed Camera System must be delayed indefinately until an investigation is carried out to look at the workings of the A9 Safety Group, Transport Scotland and investiagte other proposals which would have a direct impact on overtaking, which is the main offical cause of accidents on the A9.

What the petitioner did first

In response to the A9 Speed Camera Proposal, a Facebook campaign was set up to allow interested individuals to discuss alternatives as well as express frustration that the A9 Safety Group had not understood the real problems of A9 driving. This group has nearly 9000 followers, with the majority statistically being based in IV and KW postcode areas. It has been seen by over 1/2 million unique viewers since creation. It has comments in excess of 15,000 of discussion and debate on alternatives and photographic evidence of poor driving at low speed, poor road condition and other elements of driver frustration which Average Speed Cameras will not resolve. Official statistics show that Mean Speeds on all A9 data counters falls below the legal speed limit.
- A 20 point Interim plan for the A9 was published to discuss and investigate real alternatives to the Average Speed Camera proposal in August 2013. This included systems to prevent overtaking such as lane control, spacing control, improving visibility with vastly improved maintainence of the road and roadside, alternatives to drivers who wish not to use the A9 until dualling is complete and options for other A9 road users. This was sent to Transport Scotland and MSP's but was never debated in parliament nor did Transport Scotland issue a response despite having a working group dealing with the plan.
- An independent Survey Monkey was set up due to continuing blocking tactics of the Scottish Parliament Petitions department to allow A9 users to make their view heard and also suggest alternatives. This has so far received over 1700 responses with 91% stating they believe A9 Average Speed Cameras will not address safety in the current climate on the A9.
- An MSP was approached to help the campaign proceed with their official petition at the Scottish Parliament who we believe did approach the Petition Team and was assured there was no obvious reason why the petition was continually being blocked.
- A media campaign has been set up to publish information gleaned from FOI requests which prove that speed is not the main factor in A9 incidents, Police Scotland state they do not record Incident Speeds in the 544 page FOI document received on every A9 incident since 2007. It also appears that Transport Scotland had advanced plans for an A9 Average Speed Camera system for some years in advance of the announcement and an FOI request in still in progress to ascertain the level of engagement and lobbying there may have been with such companies.
- Voters have been encouraged to write to their MSP's on the issue and we belive this has been done, though there has still not been any public debate in parliament on the proposal nor has there been any delay whilst flaws in evidence and statistics are debated as well as alternatives, which FOI shows have not been investigated.
- Campaign groups have offered to meet the Transport Minister, who has ignored all correspondance personally with the campaign, whilst the Chief Executive of Transport Scotland, David Middleton, has refused 2 times to personally meet campaigners to discuss the concerns raised by nearly 9000 A9 users.
- The campaign offered to set up a cross political party, cross agency conference to discuss the campaign and also alternatives to the A9 Average Speed Camera system. The Transport Minister and the A9 Safety Group never responded to the invitation to the conference whilst MSPs and Transport Scotland did so. Therefore the conference could not proceed.

Where it was considered

Official Report
  1. 28 Jan 2014
    Public Petitions Committee
    New Petitions
    1 mention
  2. 22 Apr 2014
    Public Petitions Committee
    Current Petitions
    1 mention
  3. 17 Jun 2014
    Public Petitions Committee
    Current Petitions
    1 mention

Signatures by country

2,007 online signatures
  1. Scotland1,741 86.7%
  2. United Kingdom203 10.1%
  3. England50 2.5%
  4. Wales4 0.2%
  5. France1 0%
  6. United States1 0%
  7. Austria1 0%
  8. Togo1 0%
  9. Netherlands1 0%
  10. Northern Ireland1 0%
  11. 3 other countries3 0.1%

Comments

192 comments, oldest first
192 comments · showing 1–50
  1. Lynne Mackay 24 Nov 2013
    Hopefully the real problem will be looled at. The lack of safe areas to overtake and clearer road signs.
  2. Kevin Annandale 24 Nov 2013
    Spend the money to duel the A9 instead of spending millions on a Border train line.
  3. Fraser Steell 24 Nov 2013
    As a regular traveller to the Black Isle to visit my partners grandmother who suffer dementia I really hope they do not go through with this
  4. Paul Evans 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras should be done awa with & more actual speed cameras placed on the road ...this will stop abiguity for drivers by forcing them too slow down & cause frustration on this perilous road
  5. Laura 24 Nov 2013
    Use the money for duelling more of the A9, cameras are definately not the answer!
  6. Davie Macleod 24 Nov 2013
    Dual The A9 .... It's the 40 mph speed limit for HGV's that causes frustration, which leads to accidents which causes Death ... I am an HGV Driver with 14 years experience and use the A9 every day ..... I have witnessed a few bad ones where people have died ....
  7. Billy 24 Nov 2013
    Slowing the traffic down is not the answer. Dualling the whole stretch from Perth to Inverness, with safe junctions is the answer. Because the road has a mixture of slow and fast moving traffic. Junctions are very un safe, some people are impatient some people cant judge the speed of traffic coming towards them. I think putting ave speed cameras on the route are not the answer. Speed it not the danger but dangerous driving is.
  8. Christopher Barker 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras are only going to cause Its at joffs.. nana had it and as she was gettn out the car the wind blew the door open n nana got dragged out n her foot hit the accselerator pedal n car spun round n auntie janets car n zhen my car ended up in sophie's garden at lime park....opposite janets hse... front passenger side wing n bumper n headlite smashed on my car xmore fustration between car & van drivers weavibg in & out of hgv lorries....
    If the A9 speed limit was put upto 50mph for hgv's then you would get less impatient car & van drivers!! (FACT)...
    Dualling the A9 also has its benefits also as then you get a steady lineof vehicles travelling up & down it...
    This will not stop accidents BUT it will definatley reduce the number of accidents...
    HGV's are getting blamed for accidents on the A9!!!
    But in this year alone (2013).. hgv's have not been the major factor in these incidents just careless impatient car & van drivers trying to sneak outof laybys & junctions because they have it in thier minds that they will be stuck behind the hgv vehicle for a long period of time!!
    Not true!! Most hgv drivers pull in and let ques past!! But what alot of small vehicle drivers dont seem to understand is that it can take a few minutes for a fully frieghted lorry to get up to speed & maintain it.. especially on uphill gradients!!
    So if small vehicle drivers were educated in this way then they would understand & maybe think twice before trying to get past at ridiculous times on these roads i.e.( A9 ) etc.....
    So show more respect towards hgv's !!!
    Remember these words!!

    When behind a lorry
    Don't try & hurry
    Your life depends on it..!!!!!

    Fact!! : Lorry drivers keep this country running !!
    Your Food,Medicines,Cars,Vans,Clothes,Toiletries etc etc etc......All get deliverd by HGV Transport!!!
    So .
    Show Respect, Not Neglect!!!
  9. Ken Povey 24 Nov 2013
    Vverage speed cameras are not what is required, The A9 needs to be dual carriageway between Inverness and Perth and the Central Belt.
  10. J 24 Nov 2013
    I think the money should just be spend on making the A9 duel carriage all the way. Why spend all this money on cameras.
  11. Rachel Makenzie 24 Nov 2013
    Use these funds wisely. I was up and down the A9 in the last3 days n it's overtaking opportunities that are urgently required if lives are to be saved. Reinstate tge sight lines that were there at the time of construction as a stop gap before dualling. Also lorries need to be able to travel faster
  12. gavin Edward 24 Nov 2013
    I think this a waste of public money that will only cause more frustration on the A9
    As a regular user I find. It is a few idiots causing havoc with idiotic overtaking maneuvers and not speed that causes the problems
  13. John m steele 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras will not work, because there will b too mutch build up of traffic travelling behind lorrys at 40mph, and frustrated car drivers will try to overtake at any time, even when they can't see ,
  14. Kevin 24 Nov 2013
    Proposed speed cameras do not address overtaking issues which are a significantly higher cause of accidents. Also does not take account of distance HGV's will need to travel at 40mph, effectively increasing the cost of living for everyone North of Perth.
  15. Mark Sutherland 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras will do nothing to promote safety on the A9 because the average speed is already well below 60. People speed when they overtake because they put the pedal to the metal to get past and back in again before a truck coming the other way wipes them out. You could 85 passing a truck and be back down to 60 and it will make no nevermind to your average speed. What will hapen, and we saw it happen recently with the average speed cameras on the M90 when the road works were on, is that people will drive well under the speed limit because they are scared their speedos aren't completely accurate or maybe they sped a little further back by accident and so although the speed limit was 40, huge swathes of people were doing 30 and th rest were doing 35. This would happen on the A9 making the tailbacks and frustration and dangerous overtaking even worse.
    ReCaptcha is the most irritating application on the internet. Please stop using it.
  16. Craig Lamb 24 Nov 2013
    Making drivers stick to 40 mph for long periods will amplify frustration and the number of risks taken will be horrendous the A9 is not a bad road it's the minority of idiots taking high risk overtakes etc that has spoiled it for the majority of good safe road users.
  17. Yvonne Boa 24 Nov 2013
    I live in Ullapool but from Edinburgh and go down for most Hearts football matches and to visit my friends, I can honestly say adding average speed cameras will just add to more frustration and therefore even more accidents on this road. Simple measures that are more cost effective could be done now before its dualled, improvements on speed signs, a layby to stop north of Drumochter with facilities like a mobile van with coffee and a port a loo could make significant difference to accidents. I would average less than 50 from Inverness to Perth on the A9, as you always get stuck in long convoys of traffic. With average speed cameras the entire stretch will make people spend more time looking at their speedometer rather than the road and will add a lot more time on to the journey. Are we not trying to progess the access to the Highlands? Or we trying to isolate even further? I would like the Parliament to seriously think about the people who live up north in all of this. The tourist and business industry will be badly damaged with 100 odd miles af average speed cameras to contend with on your trip and therefore add more costs to the average Highlander for goods and services and less income from the tourist market. Improve our public transport links and get the money spent on upgrading the A9, not on a revenue stream to punish A9 users even more.
  18. james forbes 24 Nov 2013
    As a trucker who daily uses the a9 i have come across many an accident and had countless near misses with cars overtaking dangerously. this dueling desperately needs done to prevent more needless death.
  19. John Scott 24 Nov 2013
    Enforced spacing between HGV's is the single most straightforward action that should be taken, along with allowing these vehicles to travel at 50mph, which they are perfectly safe to do in this day and age.
  20. Lorraine MacFarlane 24 Nov 2013
    I use the A9 several times a week for business purposes as a car driver. Slowing traffic further will increase RTAs not reduce them. In my opinion the root cuases of A9 accidents are poor driver (not speeding ones) and frustration caused by a road not fit for purpose. ASC will not address these issues but will exacerbate them when more drivers become over-caution leading to extensive tail backs and thus riskier overtaking manoeuvres.
  21. Sharon Queen 24 Nov 2013
    Reducing the limit will solve nothing and cause more overtaking which is the main cause of accidents!
  22. Heather Mackinnon 24 Nov 2013
    It makes sense to delay any workings till they know what money they fork out is for the right decision made.
  23. Michael O'Donnell 24 Nov 2013
    The average speed camera idea is an awful idea, and dualling the entire A9 is the only way to cut out horrendous overtaking maneuvers by frustrated drivers.
  24. George Cameron 24 Nov 2013
    ASC are not the answer, it needs central money diverted ASAP to ensure the A9 is dualled immediately!
    Speed is not the main cause of accidents, the road is not fit for purpose and the sooner the Scottish Government pay as much attention to this as the Yes Campaign, the better for the Highlands!
  25. Emma Sharp 24 Nov 2013
    Dualling is the only way to go. Use the money you were going to spend on cameras to duel another section now. Keep duelling small sections when money available.
  26. John McRae 24 Nov 2013
    As a frequent A9 user I agree it is risky overtaking driven by frustration that causes accidents. The only solution to this is dualling the A9. All average speed cameras will do is swell the coffers of Parliment.
  27. Kenneth Mackenzie 24 Nov 2013
    This would only slow all traffic down to 40mph behind lorries. This would cause frustration and also reduce cars average speed. This would mean that cars could then to overtake a very high speeds well in excess of 60mph to try to clear long tail backs which will lead to many more deaths on the A9. This cannot be allowed to go ahead.
  28. Sean Donnelly 24 Nov 2013
    The ultimate answer is to dual or even install a motorway but in the short term additional lengths of dual carriage way or overtaking lanes. The other problem is the placement of road safety camera vans on the only stretches of places safe to overtake making people take chances on other stretches. Average speed cameras are not the answer here!
  29. Roderick Boyd 24 Nov 2013
    I firmly believe that cameras will only increase driver frustration on this busy road, leading to more accidents.
  30. Lesley Meldrum 24 Nov 2013
    This wont stop the accidents this will make them worse build bridges
  31. Diane Davidson 24 Nov 2013
    Slow speed just as dangerous as fast speed. Lorries should be allowed to keep up their speed after dual carriageway. Cameras wouldn't help frustration of drivers and that's how the A9 is so dangerous. Frustration is a killer force.
  32. Stephen Lovie 24 Nov 2013
    A9 is a good road, just drivers become impatient and frustrated by slower lorries and some cars and try to overtake. I personally experienced at least 1 idiot on Friday the 22nd November.
  33. Diane Davidson 24 Nov 2013
    Slow speed just as dangerous as fast speed. Lorries should be allowed to keep up their speed after dual carriageway. Cameras wouldn't help frustration of drivers and that's how the A9 is so dangerous. Frustration is a killer force.
  34. chris 24 Nov 2013
    Repeatedly claiming my email address is invalid will not discourage me from signing this petition. Nice try!
  35. Charlesworth 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras are NOT the answer. This will simply ensure HGVs travel t the regulated 40mph, cause more tailbacks and, therefore, more overtaking resulting in more accidents!
  36. Neil Cruickshanks 24 Nov 2013
    There is a lot of frustration on the A9 caused by small moving Vehicles, trucks doing 40mph, Causing inpatient drivers to do dangerous over takes,
  37. Ruan Peat 24 Nov 2013
    The A9 needs to be dueled not have more cameras that do nothing when your part of a line of 50+ cars etc stuck behind a slow moving anything!
  38. c bell 24 Nov 2013
    slowing the traffic wont help,let hgvs travel at 56 mph
  39. Karin Stewart 24 Nov 2013
    NO
  40. Mark Willenbrock 24 Nov 2013
    Cameras
    - and in particular average speed cameras
    - are nothing but a revenue stream.

    There are excellent arguments for siting them outside schools and in urban areas, but as as the revenue raised is insignificant, few are in such important sites. Despite this, these are the positions where they are most likely to save lives.

    Average speed cameras will increase bunching, frustration, dangerous overtaking and inevitably accidents, whilst extracting totally disproportionate fines and bans.
  41. Elliot Toms 24 Nov 2013
    I agree one hundred percent with the above comments
  42. Kenneth f Murdoch 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras are a must for long term road works
    For safety only there is enough cameras and camera vans to cover the most black
    spots in Scotland without more
  43. Mark Elder 24 Nov 2013
    I use the A9 every day to work between Strathspey and Inverness. Speed camera's are not the answer. Its been near misses due to overtaking that I have witnessed that are the issue so dual carriageways are the only sensible option instead of a short sighted camera system. I am sure this would not be allowed to happen in the central belt!
  44. Simon davidson 24 Nov 2013
    I use the a9 on a regular basis with a truck and I see all the crazy over taking cause of the lorry speed limit. I personal think raising it 50 mph for trucks would solve the problem certainly do think average speed cameras are the answer
  45. James Duff 24 Nov 2013
    Speed cameras will NOT improve road safety they will seriously increase the hazard by forcing drivers to take more chances to get past slow moving vehicles, the problem lies in the road in that there are very few places to safely overtake because of the plethora a blind summits and blind bends, speed cameras will make this far worse, the problem isn't speed, the problem is the road ahead can't be seen far enough ahead.
  46. Stephen Scott Olivant 24 Nov 2013
    This road is a death trap due to several factors, most notably the 40mph enforced speed limit of lorries which prevent safe over-taking, long stretches of road with no clear overtaking areas or views and atrocious road surfaces. The North has been ignored again whereas the Central Belt has had yet more road improvements announced. This is criminal negligence.
  47. Michael Sant 24 Nov 2013
    We have been using the A9 regularly for 12 years : the road layout constantly changes from single carriageway to three lane to dual carriageway which creates extremely difficult and potentially dangerous conditions particularly in poor weather and in the dark.Major improvements to the road should be the priority not wasting money on large numbers of speed cameras which will have a terrible visual impact particularly through the Grampians.
  48. Richard allen 24 Nov 2013
    When can you. Ever average over 60 on the A9 anyway.
  49. Catrina Angela Maclean 24 Nov 2013
    Average speed cameras are not the answer! Widen the road
  50. Allen Brown 24 Nov 2013
    They have no idea the biggest danger is overtaking slower drivers. they need to create a law where if you build up so many cars behind you for so far you MUST pull over to allow people who need to go the speed limit to pass.