Parliament Workbench
Data: Official Report to 12 Nov 2026

Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

Acquired Brain Injury Services (PE1179)

Tuesday 9 September 2008 Public Petitions Committee Petitions 39 contributions · 9 speakers

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The record

39 contributions
John Farquhar Munro LD The Deputy Convener · Ross, Skye and Inverness West
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As members will see, the convener has left us for a few minutes so, for my sins, I will take over the chair of the meeting.PE1179 is from Helen Moran, on behalf of the Brain Injury Awareness Campaign. It calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to introduce a separate and distinct health and community care client category of "acquired brain injury" to ensure that people with acquired brain injury and their carers get the services and support that they need and that agencies can plan and deliver services more effectively.The usual format is that petitioners get about three minutes to speak to us and make their case. We then throw it open to questions from the committee.

Helen Moran Brain Injury Awareness Campaign
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I represent the Brain Injury Awareness Campaign—also known as BrainIAC—which is a group of people who have acquired brain injury and their carers. It is because of our experience of the services and the gaps in services that we have come together to ensure that future services are more effective.From personal experience of having acquired brain injury, I know that ABI does not have a cure. The brain cannot rebuild itself, so ABI affects people for life. That means that people need the support of services over a long period or even for life. ABI does not discriminate; it affects people from all walks of life and affects each person differently. Some people are left with profound physical disabilities, some with cognitive thinking problems and some with emotional problems. The majority of people feel isolated. People usually have a mixture of those problems. The brain controls everything, so the effects can be anything.ABI also has an effect on the social side of people's lives. It leaves people unemployed, vulnerable to abuse and isolated from society. It affects the family and friends of the person and it also affects the society in which we live.It seems that, when it comes to funding sources, the buck is being passed between learning disability, physical disability and mental health. ABI is separate from all those and needs to be funded separately. We believe that if the funding were separate, local planners would be more able to set up suitable services in their areas.The services are patchy and piecemeal across Scotland. If someone does not live in the right place, they might find it difficult to get access to appropriate support. I ask whether, if one of you or one of your family had ABI, you would like them to be treated like that. We believe that the outcome of change would be more than just an improvement for the individuals or in the services being funded. If people had the proper support, that would reduce the number of people who are on medication for depression, who commit suicide or feel suicidal, who are assaulted, who abuse alcohol and drugs, who are stuck in hospital long-term or who are in prison. There would also be a positive effect on society overall.It is more than interesting to note that, 10 years ago, Sam Galbraith, who was then responsible for health in the Scottish Office, agreed to have community care planning guidance changed to recognise ABI as a separate group. However, that does not seem to have been followed through.I am speaking to you today because you have the power to change the way in which acquired brain injury services are funded and planned. We know that things will not change automatically, but we think that the ideas outlined in the petition will make a positive start. We ask you to introduce a separate and distinct health and community care client category of acquired brain injury.Thanks for listening. With me are Mark Ziervogel, who is a carer, and Christine Flannery, who is from the managed clinical network for ABI. We would be pleased to answer your questions.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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Thank you very much.We will move on to questions. Paul Martin has expressed an interest in the petition. I will give him a chance to comment and then we will have a question-and-answer session.

Paul Martin Lab Glasgow Springburn
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Thanks, convener. I met Helen Moran's group some months ago. My meeting with the group informed me about areas in which I would have expected there to be services in place and clarity about those services. One of the points that Helen has made so eloquently today is about the need for clarity: ABI should have a specific category within the care plan.A number of the issues that Helen's group raised do not necessarily require resources—not yet, anyway; Helen might clarify that at some point in the future—but clearly people with ABI want to be recognised as a separate group to ensure that they are supported during a difficult period in their lives.I think that Helen has publicly stated her position on the challenges that she has faced as a result of ABI and the challenges that carers face. Some basic improvements could be made as a start. When a patient is discharged from hospital, a basic manual or information pack could be provided to them so that they and their families have the necessary information to assist them on returning to the lives that they previously led. Work by the Government is required on clarifying the specific needs of the ABI group and on how to progress matters.

Nanette Milne Con North East Scotland
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The Scottish acquired brain injury managed clinical network is consulting on national standards for adults with traumatic ABI. Have you been involved in that consultation? Would standards apply across the board? I presume that national standards for traumatic ABI could be rolled out to cover other forms of ABI.

Christine Flannery
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I am the manager of that network; I am not a member of BrainIAC. The network does not campaign, but I recently fell over Helen Moran and her group in my work.The Scottish acquired brain injury managed clinical network, which is basically a way of working—it is not a department or a service—came about because it was thought that better co-ordination and integration of services were needed and that attempts to get services in place should be made if they did not exist. We are considering traumatic brain injury as the first step simply because the subject is so big to tackle. Traumatic brain injuries are one reason—indeed, they are the biggest reason—for people getting acquired brain injuries.The three-month consultation, which has been passed through BrainIAC and other groups, such as Headway, started only this month. We hope then to move on to the other categories. At the moment, we are considering people from 16 to 65 only, but we hope to consider a bigger age group and to widen the categories over time. However, as I said, the consultation has just started, and we have not received many comments back from health boards or local authorities.

Christine Flannery
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It is very early days.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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Again, we are talking about such a huge subject that it is quite difficult to quantify things and see where you are driving towards. My understanding is that the support for a person who has an acquired brain injury can vary hugely across a range of elements, depending on the problems that they face. Therefore, I am not sure how we could box the support into something that is easily tracked funding-wise and service-wise.I wonder whether an organisation such as NHS Quality Improvement Scotland could draw up helpful guidelines as opposed to our saying that acquired brain injuries should be seen as a specific field with all the funding following it, because I think that some of the funding would come from local authorities and some from the health service. Given the difficulty in tracking money through the health service, would it be better to say what the outcome that we want is rather than, "This is the badge and this is the funding"?

Mark Ziervogel
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As a carer, I would like to illustrate the problems that exist. The problems are hugely complex for carers. The patient—the person for whom one is caring—is treated in a neurosurgical unit in the acute phase. From there, they are moved to their local hospital, which may or may not have a brain injury policy—it may have a head injury policy but not a brain injury policy.The person for whom one is caring could be placed in a short-stay surgical ward that wants to put patients through quickly, even though they have a long-stay problem that might last for months, with the result that they are viewed as a bedblocker because they are affecting the ward's statistics. There is a desire to get such patients out and, although the staff all work hard, with the best will in the world, they have no facility for looking after or managing people who, by that stage, are agitated rather than critically ill. Accidents happen—people fall out of bed and break their jaw, for example. Efforts are made to move such patients into rehabilitation.Age discrimination is another problem. Some units will not take people who are over a certain age. The idea of rehabilitation is to get people back into the community. The title of the excellent unit in Glasgow is the physically disabled rehabilitation unit. However, brain injury is not just physical. Although support staff are available to deal with other aspects, the injury is treated basically as a physical disability, but it is not a physical disability—it is a brain injury, with all the problems that go with that.There is huge pressure on the beds, so hospitals want to move patients with brain injuries out into the care of the local authority. There are 14 health boards and 32 local authorities. Some have fairly good policies for handling traumatic acquired brain injury, but some have none at all, so the level of care that someone will get is a lottery—it is both a postcode lottery and an age lottery.I have not even mentioned the problems that arise if the person for whom one is caring is employed. What agencies should one refer them to? If they are bringing up children, there are all sorts of long-term problems. It is not a question of being let off after a couple of months. We are talking about a separate condition. The number of people who have it is large—others here can tell you how many people have it. Once one becomes involved, one realises that it is a hidden epidemic in our society. Trying to get other services to fund treatment for and look after people with acquired brain injury is not the answer. If the petition is taken up, we will at least be able to find out what the real problem is and to put in place appropriate care programmes, so that even if the care that people with the condition get is not the best, it is at least appropriate. That would be a great help to those who look after people who have a brain injury.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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Forgive me for not being present for the opening statement. You have emphasised your experience of the process. As your campaign evolves, do you feel that you are getting anywhere with any senior decision makers or do you feel that you are just going round in circles?

Mark Ziervogel
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I can speak only from my own experience. A group in Glasgow tried to put through a plan for dealing with acquired brain injury, but it was not funded, so funding is an issue. I would not say that it is possible to make great progress. It is pot luck—one needs to see the right person at the right time or to be told about and referred to bodies such as Headway or Momentum. Some people say that it took them 18 months before they got the necessary advice. That is not the way to handle a large group of patients. The figure that I have is that 275 people a day are seen for head injury and 45 of them get admitted to hospital, but head injury is not brain injury. People who have brain injuries are haunted by problems years after they acquire the injury. The problems remain with many people for the rest of their lives.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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You are articulating an issue that we have encountered whenever we have dealt with health issues, which is that the pathways of information are so haphazard that if we were to find ourselves in the situation that you have faced, we would not know where to go and would find out what to do only through luck or opportunity. We would not have a sense of what could be done.There will always be a resource allocation issue in the health service, as we all recognise. The issue is how to reduce the barriers of trauma and assist people in their emotional struggle in the most traumatic circumstances, so that they can deal with the reality of their injury. We need to do better there. It is not sufficient that, in 2008, whether someone gets a basic level of information depends on who they are or whom they know. I also get the impression from our papers that we are not collating the right information in the right place. How can a patient identify what to do next if the information about where the appropriate resources can be accessed is not even catalogued in the right place? Even if someone finds the money, where would they put it if they did not know the evidence base and did not know how resources are allocated?Those are the two things that struck me as important, having read the papers. You may wish to add to that.

Helen Moran Brain Injury Awareness Campaign
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Acquired brain injury needs to be recognised for what it is. It covers a lot of different things. Many hospital patients are not given any outside services. They are not given any help. Patients sometimes come out of hospital and are just told, "Bye." They might go around looking for help, going from one service to another, but always being told to go and see a different one. Each time, they are just looking for one type of help, but that is not being recognised.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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Let us try to pull the discussion together.

Nigel Don SNP North East Scotland
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I do not have any questions for the petitioners. It has been impressed on me that this is a classic case of what we are here for. Sometimes I wonder what we are talking about—that is not meant to be critical of people who bring their issues to us—but Helen Moran has put a whole range of issues in front of us and has basically said that the health service does not really know how to deal with them. Perhaps it could deal with them, but it is not doing so at the moment. This is a classic case of a petition that we need to refer to the Government and the appropriate minister, and a few other folk as well, so that they can talk about an issue that has been brought to us but which we do not technically understand—I do not, although Nanette Milne, who is professionally qualified, might well do—and which requires somebody's professional skills, mind and time. The issues need to be drawn together, no doubt in consultation with the petitioners, so that a scheme might be drawn up to make things better.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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We are all in agreement with that. Paul Martin has expressed a similar view.

Paul Martin Lab Glasgow Springburn
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It is important to consider what has happened to Helen Moran and other people—to carers and patients who have had similar experiences through their own journeys. Helen Moran has set out her experience clearly and publicly and has said where she thinks that there are failings in the system. The approach is quite clear, and we need to ask where we need to improve the system. It is sometimes a matter of basic information. How do people interrogate the system? For instance, Momentum might be available to provide a service, but should it be by accident that people find that out, or should information be provided in a more sophisticated manner as the patients are being treated? If the Government could commit to carrying out a more detailed piece of work, as Nigel Don has suggested, that would at least be a start.The campaign will continue, as Helen Moran and others try to improve people's experience. Their work will serve as a legacy for others; they are trying to ensure that other service users in the same position have an improved experience, through some simple reconfigurations of the service. Some of the measures that are needed are basic, such as providing a manual to families who find themselves in a similar situation to that of Helen Moran. It could list the organisations that can support them through the process. I do not believe that that is a difficult step to take. It would not have required significant resources to provide Helen with a manual or some sort of information brochure saying what help she could get from the national health service. That should have been provided, and such information should be made available without the need for the Parliament to carry out any studies about it.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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I now invite suggestions on what to do next with the petition. The discussion has been helpful for us in deciding how to proceed. Nigel Don has said that we should communicate the concerns that the petition has raised directly with the appropriate minister. That will be done.

Nanette Milne Con North East Scotland
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It will be interesting to see what comes out of the consultation that the managed clinical network is carrying out. I presume that you do not know when the report is likely to be made, once the consultation is over.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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I have October 2008 down as the date.

Christine Flannery
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The consultation closes at the end of October. We intend to revise the standards in November and publish them by January.

Christine Flannery
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The MCN has also been carrying out a mapping exercise across all health board areas in Scotland. It is not high-tech research, but it gives us an idea of the different pathways that exist across the country. We hope to have that available in November.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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That, too, will be useful. We should communicate with some of the key organisations that provide assistance in this area, for example Headway and Momentum, and perhaps two or three others. Are there any other organisations that members wish to suggest?

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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I would be keen to hear what the health boards have said. Given that the mapping exercise is now going on, however, we might wish to wait until that is completed, rather than write to individual boards. It would be good to find out what facilities are provided by the different health boards.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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Are there any other suggestions?

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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Perhaps NHS Quality Improvement Scotland.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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Okay. We need to explore the matter with a range of health agencies. We should get the information from the managed clinical network. We should write to the minister and the health department for their assessment of the situation and of the gaps that exist. Specific questions are raised in the petition, which we can pull together as we make our inquiry to the minister. A strong emphasis, which has been amplified by Paul Martin in particular, has been put on the issue of the availability of information at the initial stage for anyone who finds themselves in these circumstances. Are there any other strong suggestions?

Christine Flannery
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Of interested parties to contact?

Christine Flannery
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The Association of Directors of Social Work.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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It is always useful to ask. Sometimes we might omit an organisation that might be able to participate to great effect.

Mark Ziervogel
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Unless you define the entity, which is what the petition is calling for, it is not possible to work out a care pathway, as exists, for example, in the excellent breast cancer programme, or for heart disease or diabetes. A definition of acquired brain injury as an entity is required, so that it can be processed.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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We will build that expectation into whatever inquiry we make. We will say that we want absolute clarity and attention to be paid to how information is gathered. As I said earlier, there has not been a time when a health petition has been presented and someone has not said that we do not have the necessary data or information, or that it is not categorised in the right place. It is hard to be specific about things if that is the case.Your experience could be said to be absolutely specific. You are describing the reality from the point of view of users—those who experience, or rather do not experience, the level of service that we would hope for. We will make sure that that point is clearly made in any correspondence or communication that we send on your behalf.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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Could we also write to the Princess Royal Trust for Carers? The trust might be able to give us an insight into the problems that carers face.

Frank McAveety Lab The Convener · Glasgow Shettleston
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I hope that this has been useful. This is just the beginning stage of the petition, however, and there is a long way to go as we raise the issues that you have presented to us. Following the presentation today, and with the opportunity that the clinical networks present, there is a chance to tackle the issue. I am sure that the committee members who have expressed their interest and concern about the matters that you have raised will be happy to continue to pursue them.I know that this has been a long afternoon. Thank you for your time.

Meeting suspended.

On resuming—

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