Parliament Workbench
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Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

Citizens Advice Bureaux (Funding) (PE1834)

Wednesday 9 December 2020 Public Petitions Committee About 10:45–11:00 Petitions 8 contributions · 5 speakers

Speakers

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The record

8 contributions
Johann Lamont Lab The Convener · Glasgow
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The next new petition on our agenda today is PE1834, on urgent funding for Citizens Advice Scotland. It was lodged by Alistair Stephen.

The petition calls on the Scottish Government to provide urgent funding to Citizens Advice Scotland to ensure that citizens advice bureaux continue to provide services for people across Scotland. Our meeting papers explain that each CAB is an individual charity and is therefore responsible for its own funding. The Scottish Government provides funding to the advice sector, but the funding is to deliver specific projects, for example on welfare-reform mitigation and the Scottish Government’s money talk team service.

In her written submission, the Cabinet Secretary for Communities and Local Government highlights the increased support that has been provided to the sector, including to Citizens Advice Scotland and to individual CABx in response to the Covid-19 pandemic. That has included funding to help to set up a national helpline, to purchase personal protection equipment, and to make physical alterations to bureaux to enable their safe opening for face-to-face advice services.

Again, we want to think about what action we can take. I cannot overstate the importance of the advice sector at this time. There has certainly been a crisis in Glasgow, and the issue of funding for the sector has been raised. It is one thing for the Scottish Government to fund individual projects, but it is also necessary to sustain the network of advice services. Without core support and funding, other projects cannot be delivered. That is a more general issue that has been flagged up over time.

I think that we have to close the petition, although I am interested to hear what members have to say. My view is that it is not enough for the Scottish Government simply to say that it funds projects and that it is not its responsibility to fund individual bureaux. CABx have a fundamental role, at this time.

I do not think that we have even the imagination to understand the scale and seriousness of the crisis that we are facing. This is about accessing advice on welfare and other things. We know the important job that CAS plays in that regard. I am interested to hear the views of the committee; it is not clear how we can progress the petition at this time. My personal view is that we should underline that we recognise the significance of having a properly funded advice sector so that we can meet the challenges that are ahead of us.

David Torrance SNP Kirkcaldy
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Thank you, convener. CABx are important, especially locally. MSPs know that certain services have better knowledge, so we pass constituents to them. It is therefore very important that they are funded. However, the Scottish Government says that it funds the whole advice sector, not just one part of it, and funding is available to CAS from other sources including local authorities, the national lottery and so on.

I know that CABx are individual charities and that it is important for every one of them to go out there and get funding, as somebody who is—Inaudible.

I do not know whether we can take the petition any further. I appreciate the help that CABx give to the citizens whom we represent. I think that we must close it under rule 15.7 of standing orders, but I am open to hearing the feelings of other committee members.

Tom Mason Con North East Scotland
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It is difficult; funding is becoming an issue for such organisations as a result of various problems, including Covid-19. I think that we should ensure that the subject is kept under review by another committee, if we close the petition. I do not know which would be the appropriate committee, but we could write to a committee to ensure that core funding is available to advice organisations, because it is vital that advice is available to everybody. I am not quite sure what would be the most effective mechanism by which to achieve that. I do not think we can take the petition very far forward, so closing it might be the only option that we have.

11:00

Gail Ross SNP Caithness, Sutherland and Ross
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As you said, convener, we cannot overstate how important CAB is to everyone in Scotland. I deal with local CABx in my constituency quite often, and we help each out with constituents’ issues. They are the gold standard in the services that they offer.

We have to look at the matter, as Tom Mason rightly suggested, through the lens of diminishing budgets and the Scottish Government’s inability to borrow. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I would pass the matter on in a letter to another committee. I do not know whether we should include the matter in our legacy paper, but I certainly think that we could flag it up to the Local Government and Communities Committee. I know that it does—all committees do—on-going budget scrutiny throughout the year, so it might be able to find a place for the matter in an evidence session. The Social Security Committee, too, might want to look at the subject. It is important. This committee’s hands are tied, but I would like to see the matter being taken up in the new session by another committee.

Maurice Corry Con West Scotland
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I absolutely agree with Gail Ross about putting the matter before the Social Security Committee and the Local Government and Communities Committee. It is a very important subject.

I know that in my time as a councillor from a rural area on rural Argyll and Bute Council that we have had a lot of issues to do with CABx. A fundamental thing when we set budgets at the council is that funding of the service is a line item, and we could afford to fund only one office, and not two other offices in Campbeltown and Oban. We simply did not have the cash. I think that the matter is one in which we need to involve COSLA.

I agree that we are between a rock and a hard place and I agree with colleagues that we have no option but to close the petition, but should write to the two committees that have been mentioned.

We should also write to COSLA because this is about allocation of budget increments by the Scottish Government to local authorities. When local authorities set their budgets, one of the line items is funding of CABx and it is always an extremely contentious issue. Sadly, people slip through the net because we do not have advice services in communities.

I recommend that, if we close the petition, we also write to those who have been mentioned and consider whether special funding can be given by the Scottish Government apropos the post-Covid scenario. There will certainly be an increase of people coming through CABx doors.

Johann Lamont Lab The Convener · Glasgow
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Everybody recognises how important the issue is and that we want the Scottish Government and COSLA to be aware of its importance, which is not just about funding being a vehicle for projects that have been identified. CABx need to be supported and funded appropriately—in these times more than ever. We could work with COSLA and write to it in that vein. We could also flag the matter up to the Local Government and Communities Committee and the Social Security Committee.

In my experience, interventions by and support from a local CAB can make the difference in people securing appeals and getting appropriate funding. That has been true in another issue that the Public Petitions Committee has dealt with in the past—women who have been affected by mesh implants. CABx have been able to support women in making the case for why they need support through the universal credit system. That has been very effective.

In other times, we would have written the letters then come back to the petition, but we are at the end of the parliamentary session. I think that we are agreeing to close the petition, but will send the suggested letters to ensure that the substantial matters in the petition are flagged up. In closing the petition, we thank the petitioner very much and remind them that they will be able to return with a petition in the new parliamentary session, should they want to ensure that the issue is highlighted. Maurice Corry wants to come back in.

Maurice Corry Con West Scotland
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I want to emphasise that we should make sure that the matter goes in our legacy paper.

Johann Lamont Lab The Convener · Glasgow
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In other circumstances we would write to COSLA, get a response back and reflect on that. We want to underline to COSLA the importance of funding for the advice sector, and the importance of it flagging up to Government when funding is inadequate and there is a big gap. It is important that citizens are able to enforce their rights.

Of course, CABx do more than just advise about social security: in a lot of cases the advice is about consumer rights. They are where people go when they feel that they need advice and advice organisations in local authorities no longer exist.

We recognise the limitations of correspondence; we are not going to bring the matter back before the committee, but it is important that we at least flag it up. We agree to close the petition. We thank the petitioner for bringing the matter to our attention; if they want it to be pursued further there is an opportunity for them to do so later.

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