Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

Hospitality Venues (Background Music) (PE1831)

Wednesday 25 November 2020 Public Petitions Committee About 11:45–12:00 Petitions 6 contributions · 5 speakers

Speakers

Choose an MSP to read only their contributions

The record

6 contributions

Johann Lamont Lab The Convener · Glasgow

link

PE1831 is on ending the ban on background music. The petition, which was lodged by Michael Grieve, calls on the Scottish Government to end the ban on background music in hospitality venues.

The Scottish Government has advised that an expert advisory group is taking forward the task of looking at how guidance can be developed for the hospitality sector for the safe management of low-level background sound. That work is on-going, and the Scottish Government will provide further updates in due course.

Since the publication of our papers, the petitioner has provided a written submission, which was provided to members ahead of our meeting. That submission highlights the results of a report that was prepared in response to the publication of the statutory guidance. The petitioner has stated that that report reflects

“the results of other relevant published studies and”

provides

“a clear indication that well-managed background amplified audio can be safely reintroduced to hospitality settings without increasing the risk of significantly increased vocal effort, or breaching physical distancing requirements.”

I am interested in what other members think about the petition. It is clear that the Scottish Government is doing a bit of work on the issue, but it worries me that that work is very slow and that an expert advisory group will keep looking forward. Where I live, we are not going to hospitality settings at the moment, and we know how badly they have been affected. I have been told anecdotally by people who work in the sector that having no music or background sound means that, in order to avoid being heard, people lean into each other more and are in closer contact with each other. I have also been told that that does not make things quieter, that there is still a lot of noise, and that it is a different kind of noise.

I recognise that an expert advisory group is looking at the issue, but I have not seen evidence that shows that the approach is effective. Maybe we could get that. I am torn on whether we can realistically do anything more about the issue, because it is being considered elsewhere, but I am concerned by the pace at which the Scottish Government is working on it.

12:00

David Torrance SNP Kirkcaldy

link

The petitioner’s phrase “well-managed” is key. Can it be guaranteed that the sound would be well managed in those circumstances?

The Scottish Government is working on the issue. An expert advisory group is developing guidance for the sector for the safe management of low-level background noise. I know that it has been a wee bit slow to report, but I am quite happy to close the petition under rule 15.7 of the standing orders on the basis that the Scottish Government is doing work in the area and there will be a report back.

Maurice Corry Con West Scotland

link

As David Torrance said and the convener has alluded to, this is a difficult petition. I am torn between two ships. The expert advisory group’s work has been delayed by the coronavirus constraints and various restriction levels in areas and, obviously, it has not been able to proceed at pace as it uses discretion. However, I am keen to see the outcome of that work. Maybe the committee could put some pressure on the Government to increase that pace or get the work back on to the rails again. I would want an assurance about that in closing the petition.

To be clear, I think that we should close the petition under rule 15.7 of the standing orders on the basis that we will write to the Scottish Government about the pace of the advisory group’s work and ensure that we get confirmation of that to develop guidance for the sector for the safe management of low-level background noise.

The petitioner has quite rightly said:

“Music is vital to mental health and wellbeing”.

Somebody who goes into a place on their own might just want to listen to music while they are having a meal or a drink such as coffee, rather than communicate with other people. As I have said, I would like assurances from the Scottish Government if we are to close the petition.

Gail Ross SNP Caithness, Sutherland and Ross

link

I was really interested in the additional evidence that we received after we received our papers. The study raises quite a lot of questions in my mind. The background music is different in different places; it can be quite easy listening, or it can tend to be a little louder. If the Scottish Government brought that back in through regulations, how loud would it be allowed to be? There are a lot of different things to consider, and I think that the working group is looking at all those things.

I, too, am conflicted. I love music, and I love listening to it in different settings and environments, but the action has been taken for a reason. We have never had to do that before, so it is really difficult to know what the right thing to do is. I am glad that I am not the person who is making the decisions, but I trust that the expert group is looking at all those things. The work could possibly be done a little bit quicker.

Although I am really sympathetic to the point that the petitioner has made, I am happy enough to close the petition and to agree that we should write to the Scottish Government to reiterate all the things that we have discussed and that the petitioner has brought to our attention.

Tom Mason Con North East Scotland

link

I agree with Maurice Corry and Gail Ross. We should close the petition, but we need information about whether the scope of the—Inaudible.—and that it will be done in a reasonably timely manner to get some fairly early answers. We should close the petition but get assurances on progress.

Johann Lamont Lab The Convener · Glasgow

link

My own feeling is that we should close the petition but highlight to the Scottish Government how much evidence matters in this regard and the impact on the hospitality sector of not being able to have background music. Someone whom I know who works in the sector said to me that going for a meal with no music and hearing only the waiters and serving staff scraping about in the background is a very different experience. People in the hospitality sector have flagged that up.

Again, we are up against parliamentary timetables in our consideration of the petition and, realistically, we would not be able to do more than has been suggested. The Scottish Government is acting as we would want it to in respect of flagging up serious concerns about a policy that has a significant impact. There is a question mark about the health benefits of the policy and the evidence.

We agree to close the petition and to write to the Scottish Government to reflect our discussion. We recognise that the issue is really important, and we give the petitioner the reassurance that it is a live subject in the Parliament and that a number of members have been making the case very strongly. Therefore, the argument will not stop here.

We thank the petitioner for his engagement with the committee.

In this meeting

Everything on 25 Nov 2020 →

09:30 Continued Petitions Petitions · 88
10:45 Continued Petitions Petitions · 7
10:45 Continued Petitions Petitions · 6
10:45 Continued Petitions Petitions · 6
10:45 Continued Petitions Petitions · 6
10:45 Continued Petitions Petitions · 6
11:30 Continued Petitions Petitions · 6
11:30 New Petitions Petitions · 6
11:45 New Petitions Petitions · 8
11:45 New Petitions Petitions · 6
11:45 New Petitions Petitions · 6
12:00 New Petitions Petitions · 7

The type of each item (debate, statement, questions, members’ business and so on) and the times shown are worked out by this site from headings, the chair’s opening words and the Official Report’s running timestamps. They are not the Parliament’s own classification. Text: the Scottish Parliament Official Report.