Parliament Workbench
Data: Official Report to 12 Nov 2026

Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

Barra Air Service (PE598)

Tuesday 25 February 2003 Public Petitions Committee Petitions 70 contributions · 14 speakers

Speakers

Choose an MSP to read only their contributions

The record

70 contributions
John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

The next petition is PE598 from Ms Karen MacLean, on the subject of the Barra air service. The petitioners are calling on the Parliament to urge the Executive to tender for the Barra air service contract for three years and to continue permanently with the public service obligation for the Barra to Glasgow lifeline service.Three petitioners—Jessie MacNeil, Karen MacLean and Councillor Donald Manford—will speak to the petition. Maureen Macmillan and Duncan Hamilton are also present to speak in support of the petition. Jamie McGrigor was here, but he seems to have left the room for the moment. I am not sure which of the petitioners is the main speaker.

Jessie MacNeil
link

I am.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

Okay. You will have three minutes to speak to the petition, after which we will open up the meeting for members to ask questions.

Jessie MacNeil
link

We thank the committee for giving us an opportunity to use the democratic structure of the Scottish Parliament to present our case for the retention of the Barra lifeline air service to the mainland. Our petition responds to Lewis Macdonald's decision to issue the public service obligation tender for the Barra to Glasgow air service for one year only, whereas PSO tenders for Tiree and Campbeltown were issued for the standard three years. By doing so, he has put at risk not only the Barra to Glasgow air service, but the Barra to Benbecula air service and Barra airport. His action raises questions about the Scottish Executive's commitment to all air services that are covered by PSOs. Mr Macdonald has acted without consulting the island's local authority, the health board or—most important—the Barra community.Barra is a vibrant and vital island that makes a significant contribution to the Scottish economy. Annually, we export more than £1 million-worth of fish and shellfish to Europe. Currently, we provide the merchant navy and the oil industry with more than 100 skilled seamen. We export skills and young people. Through the traditions of crofting and fishing, we play an important role in protecting the ecology of a fragile area.Mr Macdonald's actions threaten the viability of the island. The loss of onshore and off-island jobs, the impact on health care, education, economic development and tourism and the increasing sense of isolation that would follow any withdrawal of the lifeline service would have a catastrophic effect on the island economy. Depopulation would surely follow.The minister has stated that the car ferry across the Sound of Barra will give Barra access to the air service out of Benbecula. Regardless of health and weather conditions, the people of Barra would have to travel 40 miles north by ferry and single-track road to turn around and travel south-east to Glasgow. At best, that route would require three or more hours for travelling from Barra to Glasgow, although it is more likely that it would require five to eight hours and often an en route overnight stay in bad weather. It is like making people in Edinburgh drive to Dundee in order to go to Glasgow, but it is more serious in its implications for individual travellers.It is ludicrous to think that such a route can substitute for a direct one-hour air service from Barra to Glasgow. Moreover, in the planning for the Eriskay causeway and the Sound of Barra ferry, no hint was ever made that such an inter-island service would replace the direct air service from Barra to Glasgow—it was never thought of as a substitute for mainland air services.We recognise that public subsidies must provide full value for money. The benefits of air services to Barra, the Western Isles and the rest of Scotland must exceed the cost of subsidies for those services. We know that proper studies will establish that they do and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The Executive has made no such studies in reaching its decision. It is time that it did so.It is also time that the Executive started to follow statutory and other governmental policies of consulting the people who will be affected. The drastic action of shortening the PSO tender to one year was taken with no consultation—that is simply unacceptable for an Executive that is committed to open government.We need to be told about the consultation. What will it be about? Why, where and when will it take place? Who will consult? We urge the Parliament to bend every effort to cause the Executive to remove the immediate threat to the Barra air service by extending the Glasgow to Barra PSO to three years and to carry out promptly each element of the remedy that is outlined in our statement. If the Executive does so conscientiously, we have every confidence that it will decide without reservation that the lifeline Barra to Glasgow air service must be continued for the indefinite future.Finally, on a point of procedure, we are concerned by the fact that the Parliament will be dissolved by the end of March—the same point at which Mr Macdonald has committed himself to make an announcement about the extension of the PSO tender. We ask the committee to request that his announcement be made no later than mid-March so that the issue can be examined prior to dissolution. I thank the committee for listening.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

Thank you. We have also received colourful support for the petition from children in Barra, which I will pass round to members. A card from Christine MacLean says:"Dear SirThis is just an example but just think about this. What if you came to Barra and slipped on a rock and broke your back? You'd have an air ambulance but if you had taken it away so you could not go, you would die."There are many other views, which I will pass round.Alasdair Morrison wanted to be at the meeting and tried to get here, but his flight has been delayed from Barra, I think. However, he asked me to read out a letter from him, in which he says:"I would greatly appreciate it if you could place on the official record my support of the petitioners from the Isle of Barra, in my constituency. The subject of the petition is a matter I have pursued since my first meeting with airport workers at the beginning of November.I am grateful to you and your fellow committee members for meeting with my constituents some weeks ago and for scheduling, and allowing them to make personal representations at today's meeting. Since we last met in the black and white corridors, when you took receipt of the petition, there has been considerable movement on this important issue. In response to a question from me on Question Time the First Minister made it clear that we could expect a statement from the transport minister shortly. I have every confidence that this will be a favourable statement.Best wishesAlasdair Morrison".

Duncan Hamilton SNP Highlands and Islands
link

First, I pay tribute to the action group both for their efforts on the island of Barra and for the public meetings that were held in Glasgow. It might interest committee members to know that, on a cold, wet Thursday night, for a meeting that was advertised only on Barra, and in an age of supposed political apathy, we still managed to get 100 people to attend a meeting in a Glasgow pub to register their support for the campaign.I do not want to repeat the points that were made by the representatives who are here. They have first-hand knowledge about the threats to the health service, tourism livelihoods and business. However, it might interest committee members to know that the petition carries the support of every household on Barra. I wonder how many of the petitions that have come before the Public Petitions Committee in the past four years have had the support of every household in the community that is affected by the issue with which the petition deals.Perhaps I can draw on my experience of previous petitions to assist in several areas of the petition. First, we have been through every possible parliamentary procedure—written and oral questions to the Executive, motions lodged in Parliament, a members' business debate in January and questions to the First Minister last Thursday—to get the petition's issue on the agenda. We exhausted the possibilities of the parliamentary process before bringing PE598 to the Public Petitions Committee. I hope that that fact will be taken into account.On a point that Alasdair Morrison made in his letter, it is worth saying that last Thursday, in answer to a question, the First Minister said that a decision would be due in the next few weeks. However, as the members of the action group made clear, the next few weeks will also see the end of the current session of Parliament. I do not think that it would be unduly cynical to suggest that there is a danger of an unpopular decision being taken when there will be no parliamentary scrutiny. One specific thing that we ask of the committee is that it writes to the Executive and makes it clear that a decision must either be made now, to allow elected representatives to call the Executive to account for its decision, or be postponed until after the election, so that the new representatives can scrutinise the decision. The absence of such scrutiny would be unacceptable in the current climate.In the past, the committee has been loth to get involved in specific campaigns and cases. However, the point is that there could be a region-wide review of the principle of PSOs and of public subsidies for direct air links. The tenders for the routes to Campbeltown and Tiree are for three years; only the Barra tender has been reduced to one year. We do not know the parameters of the Executive's review. For example, we do not know whether the definition of a PSO will be reviewed. The petition is about a generic problem that can be tackled on the basis of the issue, even if the committee is not minded to consider the petition's specific issues—which, of course, I urge the committee to do.I emphasise the seriousness of the position to which the petition refers. The community is worried not just about a single aspect, but about its future, which it is determined to secure. The direct air link is critically important for the Isle of Barra. The Barra community needs to hear from the Executive, either soon or after the election, that there will be a guaranteed long-term commitment to the island and not just a two-year commitment that will leave us staggering on to the next crisis.The recent suggestions in the press—which were made only there—that were dismissed by the First Minister on Thursday were that the review period would be extended for two years. That does not mean that there would be a three-year commitment or an indefinite commitment; it just means that the period for reviewing whether there should be a service would be extended by two years. We should view that as a stay of execution rather than as a long-term commitment by the Executive to the future of the crucial Barra air service.

Maureen Macmillan Lab Highlands and Islands
link

I associate myself with everything that Jessie MacNeil has said about the process—the lack of consultation before the announcement was made, and the realisation by the community and by everyone round this table that the ferry service, though new and improved, will not be enough. The ferry will not provide proper transport links to Barra in these days of fast access between home and work. People who work offshore or at sea need fast access for personal and medical emergencies.Duncan Hamilton has gone through a lot of background detail, and I do not want to repeat everything that Jessie MacNeil said, but I want to make a point about recent developments. Just last week, the Highlands and Islands strategic transport partnership announced that it was trying to take forward a project in which all air services in the Highlands and Islands would be bundled, and a PSO applied for, to make air access to remote areas easier and to bring down costs. It would be a disgrace if Barra were to be left out of that, because it is one of the most remote parts of the Highlands and Islands. We must ensure that there is an air service in Barra for the next few years, while the HITRANS project is being developed. The project is very interesting and could make a tremendous difference to travel in the region.The people of Barra need to do one other thing themselves: to commit to a new airstrip. In the past, that has been a bone of contention on the island. Either they kept on using the beach, or they would have to build a new airstrip. At last week's HITRANS meeting, it was felt that the bundling project could take place only if there were a new airstrip at Barra, as well as extended airstrips elsewhere in the region. I ask the people of Barra to commit to that. I want to put my whole-hearted support behind the petitioners, and I hope for a good outcome from the committee.

Jamie McGrigor Con Highlands and Islands
link

I put my full support and that of my colleague Mary Scanlon behind this petition.Recently, the Rural Development Committee did a report into integrated rural development in the Highlands and found that transport links were a high priority in keeping rural communities vibrant and, indeed, in ensuring their survival. Barra has one of the most solid communities that I have come across in the Hebrides, but it has always been independent as far as transport goes. There is no causeway to link the island to South Uist, as is the case with Eriskay, where the water is too deep. Any suggestion that the passenger ferry boat from Barra to Eriskay, followed by a road journey to Benbecula, is an alternative to an hour-long direct flight from Barra to Glasgow makes no sense to me. Barra has had an air service for some 80 years, and its removal would be a backward step, detrimental to those who live on Barra and to those who want to visit one of the most beautiful islands in Scotland, if not in the UK.I find it disturbing that there was no public consultation on the reduction of the PSO tender to one year from three. I worry that that might have implications for other Highlands and Islands air services, such as those that serve Tiree and Campbeltown. The Barra service is a lifeline that is used by many; it is particularly important for health care and education, and it is a key pillar of the structure of the Barra community. It would be ironic if Scottish government and devolution led to the isolation of Barra.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

I also support the petition. Barra is within my constituency, and I am glad to see the people putting forward their petition so well.I want to draw out the importance of the service. For instance, Jessie MacNeil spoke about people having to go to Benbecula if they needed to go to hospital. The people who go to Glasgow to hospital are usually seriously ill. Could you explain the trauma that it would cause to those people if they had to take the ferry and then go to Benbecula to get to Glasgow?

Jessie MacNeil
link

There is some health service provision within the Western Isles, as the First Minister said when he answered the question on Thursday. He stated that there was a new hospital in Benbecula; that hospital is a GP-led hospital. There is also a new hospital in Stornoway. We use the Stornoway hospital, but patients have to fly from Barra to Benbecula to Stornoway. A lot of services are not available in Stornoway, and our patients have to go to Glasgow for those services. If patients are seriously ill and need emergency evacuation, that is a case for the air ambulance, but if patients who are fit to fly are travelling backwards and forwards for routine treatment—for example for chemotherapy—they use the direct plane to Glasgow.Many of those patients are frail and could not stand up to a journey from Castlebay to Ardmhòr, then a ferry crossing that can be extremely rough, a journey on single-track roads to Benbecula, then a wait on Benbecula for a flight out to Glasgow. That journey puts a lot of pressure on people who are already not well, whereas they can cope with a direct flight to Glasgow. If we lose our air service to Glasgow and to Benbecula, a lot more air ambulances will be needed, because patients will not be able to use the service that they can currently use.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

Are you saying that, in the long run, it could cost an awful lot more to charter air ambulances to take people off the island when they are very ill?

Jessie MacNeil
link

Yes. We would need more air ambulances for routine health appointments rather than for emergency evacuations.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

Is it also the case that people go to Glasgow when births are complicated? It would be difficult to take mothers with young babies, who might be very ill, on the ferry and over single-track roads.

Jessie MacNeil
link

I will let Karen MacLean answer that question, because she has had experience of maternity cases and the difficulties that are associated when maternity cases are off-island.

Karen MacLean
link

The answer to Rhoda Grant's question is yes. If somebody is in difficulty at the end stage of the pregnancy, it is necessary to get them to Glasgow, where they can be dealt with quickly and effectively. If we visit people in the morning, we can usually get them on to the scheduled flight and away to Glasgow sharply. If we had no flights, there would be either the added expense of an air ambulance or they would be taken on the Sound of Barra ferry, which takes 50 minutes. The journey would have to be tied in with the timetable, because the timetable does not work to your advantage when you want to get somebody somewhere in a hurry. Even if the journey could be done in time, it would cause great discomfort to have to go on the ferry, and delaying things would put the mother and the unborn child at risk.Mothers-to-be understand that the island is remote and they are prepared to deal with that. They know that there is a flight out fairly sharply or there is an air ambulance; withdrawing the flight would put everybody's health at quite serious risk.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

Is the service important for keeping people on the island? People who are starting a family or who are elderly and infirm would become nervous about living on the island without the support of the flight. Would that lead to people moving away to somewhere where services were more accessible to them?

Karen MacLean
link

Yes. That is the case without a doubt. I recently spoke to one of the secondary school teachers, who is not from Barra; we take in most of our teachers. When she came to the island, she stated clearly that the air service was one of the matters that she considered before she took the contract to work in the school. She has a young son and she said that while it is all right for her to put herself at risk if she is living somewhere remote, she would not be prepared to put her son at risk. If there had been no air service, she would not have come and if we lose the service she will leave, as will an awful lot of the teachers on the island. Many of the teachers in the schools are not from the island, so they need to be able to get on and off the island quickly. If there is no air service, not many teachers will come to teach our children.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
link

Good morning folks and welcome to the great city of Edinburgh. To start, will you tell us when you left home for this visit to Edinburgh and when you are likely to get back?

Karen MacLean
link

We left on Saturday and we will not get back until tomorrow afternoon.

Karen MacLean
link

Yes. We could have left yesterday, but we would not have arrived in Edinburgh until about 7 o'clock, which was far too late. If the weather conditions had changed, we would not have been here at all.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
link

That is considered normal in Barra and other remote areas, but if I suggested to somebody in Edinburgh that it would take three days to go to a meeting, they would think that it was impossible to go.I congratulate the community on its presentation. The petition is excellent: it is well presented, precise, concise and makes the case beautifully. It seems absurd that when the local authority and others are trying to promote and improve transport links—not only inter-island links, but links to the mainland—one of the final links in the chain is being threatened with removal. That does not make a lot of sense.The letter from the Scottish Executive aviation policy branch, which is signed by a Grace McGuire, suggests that the Executive will take more information and do more research and scrutiny to determine whether there is a case for retaining the air service to Barra. How much more research or information is needed?

Karen MacLean
link

I do not know. That is one of the flaws in the argument.

Councillor Donald Manford
link

We would like to understand precisely the answer to your question. The first announcement that was made advised us that the service was to be reviewed because there was an overlap in services. However, the alternative service offers double the cost and a 500 per cent increase in travel time. In that context, we struggle to understand the definition of overlap. The announcement also mentioned the tenability of the airport. We understood from the use of the word "tenability" that the issue was about the future of the airport itself. We are committed to the development of fixed runways and so on. However the answer that we were given on the issue of tenability was:"The Executive needs to ensure that the Glasgow-Barra air service and Barra Airport are capable of being retained for the long-term within the constraints of public expenditure".That is different to our understanding of what was meant by tenable.I am also concerned about the review. What precisely will be considered in the review? What are the parameters? As we understand it, decisions on public service obligations are based on the lifeline definitions of frequency, cost, capacity, length of passage and so on. It seems that those definitions are to be reviewed and revised in the case of Barra, but is it reasonable or right that we should have a lesser service than other places with lifeline services? Is the basis of the lifeline service being reviewed entirely? If it is, is it reasonable that only one community's service should be reviewed, when many diverse communities depend on lifeline services?The question that John Farquhar Munro poses is hugely relevant and we need answers to it, which is part of the reason for our bringing the matter to the Parliament.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
link

In a remote area such as Barra, which is on the periphery, a direct air link is an essential part of the transport provision. The service should not be considered from the point of view of financial returns, but as a social service to the community.It has been suggested that the new ferry from Eriskay to Barra would solve the transport difficulties. Two or three weeks ago, when some of the civil servants from here in Edinburgh visited Barra with the local MSP and MP, they succumbed to the vagaries of sea travel on that short crossing. That happened in reasonable conditions, which we do not always have.I know that an application for a PSO takes for ever; I have been involved in trying to establish a PSO for London to Inverness. That campaign has been going on for five or six years, and a decision has not yet been reached. Any support that you can enlist from the Scottish Executive, and even from Western Isles Council, should carry the utmost weight in trying to establish that PSO for the island.I have one final question. Because of the new ferry service from Eriskay, have you lost any of the direct Caledonian MacBrayne services to the mainland?

Jessie MacNeil
link

When the Executive raised the question of overlap on the introduction of the new ferry between Barra and Eriskay, we expected it to cause conflict not on our direct ferry services from Oban to Castlebay, but on the triangle between Castlebay and Lochboisdale. To date, we have not lost that Castlebay to Lochboisdale link, but CalMac is looking at that for next year in the consultation that will take place on next summer's timetable, because that is the route that is now surplus to requirements.With a bigger vehicle-carrying vessel on the Sound of Barra, there is no longer such a requirement for the Castlebay to Lochboisdale link. That is the only part of our mainland ferry service that we see dropping, but that reflects the fact that the Eriskay causeway and the Sound of Barra ferry are improvements to the infrastructure within the Western Isles. From the Butt of Lewis to Barra Head is in excess of 150 miles. We had to improve the infrastructure throughout the Western Isles, because it is a unitary local authority. The council was committed to doing that. We did not expect to get that improvement, then suddenly to be told, "You don't need a flight to Glasgow."

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

I welcome Alasdair Morrison to the committee. I will give him a minute to catch his breath.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

I admit that I am still baffled by the fact that in the 21st century anybody should be at risk of losing their air service just because they have got a better ferry service.I have one or two questions. From your submissions, it cannot possibly be assumed that the air ambulance service could continue to operate as well as it does just now if the airport runs down as a result of the ordinary passenger service being withdrawn. Your submission says that 84 people used the air ambulance last year and:"If the airport is closed, the beach will no longer be properly maintained or monitored for safe landings and takeoffs."Could you expand on that, please?

Jessie MacNeil
link

When the health board was drawing up its brief report, the Scottish air ambulance service stated that it saw the air ambulance service continuing. When we investigated further, the air ambulance service actually said that it will be the responsibility of the contractor who delivers the service. The contractor at present is Loganair. The Civil Aviation Authority may not be quite so involved with a landing for the air ambulance, but the air ambulance service still requires a safe landing area.If the airport closes—we will certainly fight as hard as we can to ensure that it does not—the beach will still be there, but it is a living entity. Part of the work of the airport firemen is to ensure that the area within the markers—there is a designated air landing strip within the markers—remains safe. Banks of shells move across the beach like waves. Part of the role of the firemen is to ensure that those banks are levelled, because at some points they are big enough to tip a plane if it lands on them. Once the staff are no longer there to ensure that the beach is safe, there will be a question mark over where the air ambulance Islander can land. If the Islander cannot land, helicopter evacuation will be needed. To my knowledge, helicopter evacuation costs £5,000, whereas an air ambulance costs about £2,000. You can see that costs would immediately escalate.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

So the air ambulance service would be threatened. I assume from what you are saying that the state of the beach can change within a few hours and needs a team of people there all the time, because one never knows when the air ambulance might be needed.

Karen MacLean
link

When there is an air ambulance call-out, the crew checks the beach and if any debris has been washed in by the tide or there are any problems on the beach, it deals with it before the air ambulance comes in. If nobody is there to do that, the air ambulance is put at risk.

Jessie MacNeil
link

If we come over a weekend, our normal return fare is in the region of £140. If I come out for a meeting on Monday and I want to get back on a Wednesday, the fare is about £190. We were given a special concession and our fares were £99 return.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

I got to Brussels from Prestwick for a tenner return recently. You have none of the advantages of the cheap airlines.My last question is about the PSOs. Have you—or has the consultation group that was considering the issue—investigated the Irish system on PSOs, whereby some of the islands off the west coast of Ireland have free flights under the PSO scheme for certain categories of passenger, such as pensioners, disabled people and the companions of disabled people? Have you investigated how PSOs are affecting other remote areas of Europe, or is that being brought to the Executive's attention? Barra seems to be very disadvantaged in comparison with other areas.

Jessie MacNeil
link

I just wish that we were living in Ireland.

Councillor Manford
link

We have been looking at different countries in Europe, such as Ireland, France, Germany and Greece. We were optimistic that the Scottish Parliament would start leading us down the road of giving us modest improvements, if nothing else, in fare structures for the people whom you are talking about and additional fares. Instead, we have been rocked into having to defend the very existence of the service. That is where we are.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

Alasdair Morrison missed the beginning of the meeting, but he may have a chance now to say something in support of the petition.

Alasdair Morrison Lab Western Isles
link

Thank you, convener, for meeting my constituents to take receipt of the petition a few weeks ago and for scheduling this evidence session for this morning. Needless to say, I am—on behalf of Barra—fully supportive of the efforts of the petitioners. The issue has been under active and robust discussion since the beginning of November. It is unfortunate that I missed the earlier contributions from the other ladies and gentlemen who are present.It is worth putting it on record that no one has said that the service will be lost. It costs in the region of £1 million to maintain direct air links between Barra and Glasgow, which are absolutely essential. Since we have been discussing the matter with the Executive, I have focused on one area in particular—Dorothy-Grace Elder focused on it, too—which is the need for an air service for those who travel to and from hospital. I do not refer only to the air ambulance service, because many islanders are taken to hospitals in Glasgow and beyond on scheduled flights.At the beginning of November when I flew to meet the airport workers—the first meeting on the matter that I had on Barra—there was a young mother with a 10-day-old baby and the baby's grandmother on the same flight. I presume that the baby was born in the Queen Mother's hospital. They flew directly from Glasgow to Barra in 55 to 60 minutes. The alternative air route would be to fly from Glasgow to Benbecula. As I am sure my constituents have outlined, they would have had a bumpy ride down through South Uist, to Eriskay and across what can be a tempestuous stretch of water, the Sound of Barra. That is not, as Dorothy-Grace Elder pointed out, an improvement in the service.Jessie MacNeil focused on several issues in relation to the improvements in infrastructure. In the past six years, there has rightly been huge investment throughout our islands so that we are changing the dynamics of internal transport within the Western Isles, as well as changing the dynamics of the economy and our socioeconomic perspective. That is right and proper and it is what we should be striving to do. However, no one ever saw the improvements as an alternative to or replacement for the air service. I assume that that point has already been made by Ms MacNeil, Ms MacLean and Councillor Manford.At the beginning of the year, Lewis Macdonald visited Barra and met the islanders and all the points that have been made this morning were made to him then. He pledged that his officials, Western Isles Council officials and officials from Highlands and Islands Airports Ltd would examine all the available data. Those data included the economic appraisal that was conducted by Western Isles Enterprise and other data from Western Isles NHS Board. As the First Minister said at question time last week, we are expecting a response from the minister responsible for transport shortly. I have no doubt that it will be a favourable response.The air service is absolutely essential; it is a direct link between Glasgow and Barra that must be retained. I am fully of the opinion that we must extend the current tender in order to have a proper discussion about the sustainability and the long-term viability of the air service. We could, if that were the case, discuss not only the Glasgow to Barra links but the internal air links from Stornoway all the way down to Barra. I certainly support the points that I assume have been made forcibly and cogently here this morning.No one was ever under the impression that the fares and fare structures that are put in place by the airlines are matters for the Government or the Scottish Executive. Those are commercial decisions and undertakings that are made by airlines. The Government has said that it costs £1 million per year to keep the Glasgow to Barra service running. That is money well spent because the service is essential to the quality of life of the young, old and middle-aged people.I do not have any questions to put to the witnesses because I cannot think of any I could put to them. I just want to put on record the fact that I support the petitioners.

Irene McGugan SNP North East Scotland
link

I am glad that Alasdair Morrison is here because I have a question for him. He used two specific words in the letters he wrote to the committee and he repeated them in the submission that he has just made. He said that he anticipates that a decision will be made "shortly" and that it will be "favourable". On what basis has he made those optimistic predictions and would he like to expand on them? For example, does "shortly" mean that the decision will be made before the end of March when Parliament dissolves? There is concern that a decision made at that time will not allow proper scrutiny. What does "favourable" mean? Does it mean a two-year review or a three-year public service obligation? What does Mr Morrison think is a "favourable" response?

Alasdair Morrison Lab Western Isles
link

"Shortly" means shortly or soon and it is the word that Lewis Macdonald used. The undertaking was given clearly by Lewis Macdonald on Barra that he would come back with a response before the end of March. That means between this morning and 31 March.A "favourable" outcome, from my point of view and my constituents' point of view, would be to have an extension of the tender so that we could have a rational discussion. It was originally proposed that the review would take place between April and September—over seven months. We have made the point that we do not believe that that is a sensible period for proper review, because it does not include the overlap and will examine only one part of the year.We have had one small old ferry doing a reasonable job in a tempestuous stretch of water, which has proved that although people can travel by car to Benbecula airport, it has not impacted on the number of people using the air service between Barra and Glasgow. In fact, in the eight months from March to November, there was a 1.2 per cent increase in traffic between Glasgow and Barra.It is not the PSO that is under discussion; it can be removed only by the European Commission. The PSO will not, however, be removed—it is there in perpetuity. It is the tender period that we have to sort out, as far as I am concerned. There are three services under tender: Campbeltown, Tiree and Barra. The PSO exists, but it is the tender period that must be extended—its extension would be a favourable outcome. Rather than the tender period running from April 2003 to 2004, the Barra tender should begin in 2003 and be extended, ideally in sync with the tender periods for Tiree and Campbeltown.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

I have allowed an exchange between Irene McGugan and Alasdair Morrison, but at this point we are meant to be asking questions of the petitioners. Members can exchange views later when we discuss suggested action.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
link

I come to the matter as an outsider, whereas most of the comments that have been made until now have been fairly informed. The service is a purely public service that is necessary to Barra if people are to be retained on the island and if people on the island are to find employment in the rest of Scotland and beyond. The Scottish Executive is interested in improving infrastructure to improve the economic development of Scotland. Do you regard this public service facility as part of the Barra infrastructure in the same way as I regard the A77 as part of the infrastructure in Ayrshire?

Jessie MacNeil
link

I certainly do. When we were preparing our submission for today's meeting, we nearly asked whether the Glasgow to Edinburgh rail service would be removed because there is a Glasgow to Edinburgh motorway. A similar thing is being done in Barra. We need fast access to and from the island if we are to get investment in our young people and our community. We are investing a lot in information technology skills and skills that we hope can help remote communities to create employment and bring back to the island some of the highly skilled graduates who currently work on the mainland.We need to take the plane—I cannot leave my house and drive more than five miles without having to go on either a plane or the ferry. That is the reality of life on Barra. If I want to travel more than half an hour away from my house, I hop on a plane or the ferry. Gone are the days when island people left home once a year for a fortnight. We are coming and going as required to meet business and to meet the island's needs. That is the key to the issue. The plane is part of our transport infrastructure.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
link

Alasdair Morrison suggested that there is no intention whatever of getting rid of the public service obligation order. If that is the case, I am slightly puzzled as to why opting for a one-year tender at the present time would be of any benefit, given that there is a cost in putting tenders together and ensuring that back-up exists to provide the tender for a period. The shorter the period of the tender, the higher is its cost. Have you any idea why the Executive has opted for a one-year tender period?

Jessie MacNeil
link

Until the announcement was made that the tender was being issued only for a year, we had heard nothing. We do not know why that decision had been made and there has, for some time, been a question mark in our minds over the future of the beach as a landing strip.I would like to respond to a comment that was made by Maureen Macmillan, because there seems to be some confusion. The beach is a high-profile landing area, but there are restrictions on the types of planes that can land on it. Even Lewis Macdonald made a mistake when he talked about the referendum on the hard air strip. That referendum asked two questions: the first was whether we wanted a hard landing strip to replace the beach landing strip for a scheduled passenger service. The votes showed that 365 people did and 235 did not. A few politicians around this table would be happy with a majority of that scale.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

Especially in the next election.

Jessie MacNeil
link

We were in favour of a hard landing strip. We were also asked whether we wanted the hard landing strip to be at or on the Tràigh Mhòr. However, because the final design on the feasibility study that was produced put the landing strip right out across the Tràigh Mhòr, people said no to the question whether they wanted the hard landing strip there. They were concerned about the impact on the beach of a huge, solid rock structure. The Tràigh Mhòr is not only an airport—it has a biomass of about 900 tonnes of cockles, which plays a part in the economy of the island. Furthermore, at the time of the referendum, the cockles had played a part in changing the law of Scotland because, in order to protect the cockles, we supported a ban on mechanical harvesting of cockles throughout Scotland. We were sensitive about the use of the Tràigh Mhòr.There is room on the machair for a hard landing strip without it coming out onto the beach. That issue has come up on a number of occasions in relation to the viability of the project. However, that was not said in October when Lewis Macdonald said that he was restricting the tender. He said that he was reviewing the viability of the Glasgow to Barra air service.There is another PSO that is linked to our air service: the inter-island PSO that covers the route between Stornoway, Benbecula and Barra, which is a separate contract. The Western Isles Council was going to issue that contract for three years, as usual, until it got a letter from the Scottish Executive which said that it could not. The council was told that, because the Scottish Executive was issuing the Glasgow to Barra tender for only one year, the other tender had also to be issued for only one year. The council was not consulted on that decision.At the public meeting in Barra in January to which Alasdair Morrison referred, Lewis Macdonald stated that not only was the viability of the Glasgow to Barra air service being reviewed, the viability of the Barra to Benbecula air service was being reviewed—even though it was not a Scottish Executive PSO—as was the viability of the beach. That is how we are being drip-fed information.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

I must stop you there because we are pressed for time and other petitioners wish to speak. We have time for a final question from Duncan Hamilton.

Duncan Hamilton SNP Highlands and Islands
link

It has been suggested that the Executive has no intention to remove the service or make changes that would impact on the airport. Is it your view that we cannot possibly know whether that is the case, given that the purpose of the review has been cloaked in secrecy and that the viability of the two routes that you have mentioned and, importantly, the airport have been called into question?Alasdair Morrison said that the decision will be made "shortly", but it is possible that it might be made too late. Do you agree that, if that decision is not made in the middle of the month, to enable adequate time for scrutiny before the end of the Parliament, it should be postponed until after the election so that there is a chance for proper democratic scrutiny? Do you agree that it is important that we stress that we do not want merely an extension of the review period but a long-term policy commitment to the future of the service?

Jessie MacNeil
link

We would not be happy if we were told only that the review period will be extended. We have not been told what is to be reviewed or why the review is being carried out. Will the review consider the whole question whether the Barra service is a lifeline service? We will be concerned if the review does not consider that. Our petition is looking for the tender to be extended, but we want a commitment to the Barra service and a recognition that it is a lifeline service. That must be part of the review. We want to know what is being reviewed, how it is being reviewed and by whom it is being reviewed. Other than the public statements, our community has received no communication to explain why. We do not know why the review is being carried out.We have also had to work our way into and learn quickly about the procedures of the Scottish Parliament. We would be very concerned if an announcement were made on 31 March and the issue was then closed so that we could not come back to Parliament if we were unhappy. We want an announcement to be made as early as possible so that our elected MSPs can consider the matter and discuss it before coming back to us, and so that we can talk to them before Parliament is dissolved. If that does not happen, we want the petition to continue so that the new Parliament can deal with the matter fully and in depth. We are wary of the whole matter just dropping out of sight.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

I ask Jamie McGrigor to ask his question quickly, because we have many other petitioners waiting to speak to other petitions.

Jamie McGrigor Con Highlands and Islands
link

I know that Barra has a transport committee. When the objective 1 money was being found for the Eriskay causeway, was it at any time suggested that the causeway might somehow be a substitute for the Barra air service?

Councillor Manford
link

No. Absolutely nothing like that was ever said anywhere. We hear talk about rationalisation and saving money within a particular pot, but if there had been such a suggestion, it was made without the knowledge of the community or the council. It would be obscene if the people were not given the option of understanding the choice that was being made. In fact, there was no choice.Mr Gallie suggested that the proposal compares to removing the train link between Edinburgh and Glasgow and leaving just the M8. I would go much further than that. In context, the change would be like saying that it is all right to take away the M8 and the railway service between Edinburgh and Glasgow simply because people could go via Dundee.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

I am from Dundee, so be careful.We now move on to consider the suggested action. We have been told that there will be a strategic review of the future of the air service. We are also told that a decision is pending from the minister on whether a one-year extension to the PSO contract will be sufficient time within which to conduct the review. The petitioners say that the tender should be for three years as normal, and that a commitment should be given to the island's air service as a lifeline service that must be maintained.The issue is complicated by the fact that we do not know what the minister means by "the end of March". It is suggested that, as time is running out and there is no committee to which we can send the petition for action in the interim, we should refer the petition directly to the Deputy Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning. We can ask the minister to take the petition into consideration when he decides whether the contract should be extended for one year or three years.I am minded to suggest that we should say that the committee is of the view that that decision should be made by the middle of March by the very latest, because that would allow parliamentary scrutiny of the decision. I also suggest that we pass to the minister a copy of the Official Report of this morning's meeting and ask him to pay attention to what has been said by all those who have spoken on this important debate.Do members have any other suggestions?

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
link

The way in which the Executive is conducting the review has been referred to. The Executive talks about having an open and transparent review, but the evidence that we have heard seems to suggest that the review is anything but open and transparent. There seems to be a great question mark over the purpose of the review and over the detail of what it will contain. I suggest that we ask the minister for greater detail on the purpose of the review.

Duncan Hamilton SNP Highlands and Islands
link

I have a point of clarification. I welcome the suggestion about the decision being made by mid-March. Does the committee also intend to suggest that, if it will not be possible to have made the decision by then, it should be postponed until the Parliament meets again for the new session so that we do not fall between two stools and so that there will always be a mechanism for scrutiny?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

That is my view. It is up to other members to say what they think. However, I would have thought that the reason why we should ask that the decision be made by mid-March at the latest would be to allow parliamentary scrutiny. If that cannot be done for practical reasons about which we do not know, perhaps we should say to the Executive that the decision should be deferred until the new Parliament—which can subject the decision to parliamentary scrutiny—is in place.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

We should say that we want to know the outcome before mid-March—people need to know as soon as possible. The decision is hanging over folk and we should not start watering down our recommendation. If we send the message that we want, for those who will be affected, an early announcement from the minister, we would water it down if we said, "If you can't manage, can you leave it a bit later?" The review period starts in April, which would make that difficult, because a review would already be under way when the announcement would be made. We must be clear that the sooner the decision is made, the better.

Duncan Hamilton SNP Highlands and Islands
link

We are arguing the same point, but a different way. However, the problem with Rhoda Grant's suggestion is that, although the First Minister has said that an announcement will be made in the next few weeks, if that announcement is postponed for a reason the committee cannot possibly know, the Executive could argue that it tried to make the decision as near to the middle of March as it could. If the decision ended up being announced at the end of March, all of a sudden democratic scrutiny would be lacking.I understand Rhoda Grant's point—we should ask the Executive to make the announcement as soon as possible and by the middle of March. Failing that, the worst-case scenario is that the decision will be announced in a black hole in which there is no democratic scrutiny.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

It has been suggested to me that one way round the matter is to stick with saying that the committee's view is that the decision should be announced by mid-March to allow the Parliament to scrutinise it. However, we should also say that, if that will not be possible, the committee will need to know that by 11 March, which is our next meeting. If a practical barrier exists, we can decide on the matter at the 11 March meeting and recommend that the decision be postponed until after the election.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

That would make me happier. The pressure is on for an early decision. If we can consider the matter again on 11 March, that is fine.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

Because Phil Gallie has asked for additional information about the transparency of the review that is to be conducted, we cannot refer the petition formally to the Deputy Minister for Enterprise, Transport and Lifelong Learning. The petition remains open and in the committee's possession. We will copy the petition to the deputy minister and ask him for the information that we want. If we refer the petition formally to the minister, we cannot ask for additional information. That is a technical point. It does not really change anything.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

Do we know the names of everyone who is involved in the review and of those who have been consulted and who have given evidence? If we do not, could we ask the Executive for that information?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

That is the kind of detail for which we will ask: the nature of the review, who will be involved and what its remit is.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

We are so tired of hearing, as we did a fortnight ago, about review bodies whose members are not named, that have no remit and that disappear behind closed doors.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

That is the point that Phil Gallie was making.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
link

Could we also ask for details of the mechanism that the Executive hopes to use to involve the island community so that information is shared? It has been made clear that information has come out in drops rather than clearly. If a mechanism was set up whereby the island community could be involved in the review and know at all times what was going on, that would be helpful.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
link

We will ask the Executive how it intends to involve the local community in the process.I thank the petitioners for attending and for their evidence. We hope that we will get a positive outcome for the petition.

Jessie MacNeil
link

Thank you for listening to us and for helping us with the petition.

  1. Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee Tuesday 25 February 2003 (Morning) Petitions · 2
  2. New Petitions Petitions · 20
  3. New Petitions Petitions · 70
  4. New Petitions Petitions · 54
  5. New Petitions Petitions · 43
  6. New Petitions Petitions · 1
  7. New Petitions Petitions · 3
  8. Current Petitions Petitions · 3
  9. Current Petitions Petitions · 1
  10. Current Petitions Petitions · 1
  11. Current Petitions Petitions · 2
  12. Current Petitions Petitions · 20
  13. Current Petitions Petitions · 3
  14. Current Petitions Petitions · 8
  15. Current Petitions Petitions · 5
  16. Current Petitions Petitions · 11
  17. Convener's Report Procedure · 8

The type of each item (debate, statement, questions, members’ business and so on) and the times shown are worked out by this site from headings, the chair’s opening words and the Official Report’s running timestamps. They are not the Parliament’s own classification. Text: the Scottish Parliament Official Report.