Parliament Workbench
Data: Official Report to 12 Nov 2026

Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

National Burns Heritage Trail (PE861) Robert Burns (Culture and Tourism Policies) (PE824)

Monday 6 June 2005 Public Petitions Committee Petitions 38 contributions · 8 speakers

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The record

38 contributions
Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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Our next petition is PE861, which Bob Leitch has lodged on behalf of the board of directors of Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Executive to take immediate action to create a task force to integrate and develop all Burns assets, properties and locations throughout Scotland, which will result in the establishment of a national Burns heritage trail that will be ready for the year of homecoming in 2009 and which will also be available for promotion internationally by the end of 2006. Before the petition was lodged, it was hosted on the Parliament's e-petition website, where it attracted a total of 171 signatures.Bob Leitch will make a brief statement to the committee in support of the petition. He is accompanied by John Kerr. Welcome to the committee. You have a few minutes to address us, following which we will discuss the petition.

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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I thank the committee for giving us the opportunity to speak to our petition. Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry lodged what was just the second petition to the Public Petitions Committee in 1999, on completion of the M77 between Malletsheugh and Fenwick. I am delighted that, as a result of that petition, that road recently opened. We hope that our current petition will have similar success and that, in time, the Burns trail will be up and running.Our petition is about the Burns product and its importance for Scotland, Scottish tourism and—ultimately—the Scottish economy. If we consider England and think about Shakespeare and look at Dublin and think about Joyce, we realise how much better marketed and better known they are as international products throughout the world, not just in their native countries.When we began to research the issue, we were fascinated to find the number of Burns heritage trails that exist. If one goes on to the worldwide web, one can find at least a dozen—their number seems to grow day and daily. We are not concerned about their existence because, of course, the fact that they exist is most commendable; the problem is that there seems to be a great lack of joined-up thinking. Recent changes at the Burns national heritage park have brought the whole issue of Burns and the Burns product more to the fore. We, of course, commend and support the previous petition that came before the committee; I understand that the committee will hear responses to that petition later today.We are looking at a bigger, broader and more international picture. We believe that the Burns product should be promoted internationally throughout the world, probably starting with the countries where Burns is best known and supported at the moment, although promotion should grow outwards from that base. We are concerned with the bigger picture, not just with Ayrshire. Of course Burns is an important product for Ayrshire: we endorse and acknowledge that. However, we believe that there are much bigger opportunities throughout Scotland and outwith Scotland to promote Burns.

John Kerr Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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If there is a positive will to pursue a national Burns heritage trail, there should also be positive discrimination in the Scottish education system to ensure that the indigenous population gains an appreciation of Burns's works, which is sadly lacking at this time. A national trail will also provide an appreciation of Burns's works throughout the calendar year, rather than there being just one dominant day at the end of January with his works forgotten for the other 364 days. A national trail would support both those suggestions; they should be taken into account if such a trail is given the opportunity to exist.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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As Mr Leitch pointed out, the committee has another petition on the same subject on its agenda. If we take that petition and the responses to it at the same time as PE861, we could discuss all the points that have been raised by the petitioners this morning and by the previous petitioners. Do members agree to that?Members indicated agreement.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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PE824 by Peter Watson on behalf of Alloway and Doonfoot community council called on the Scottish Parliament to review the policy and commitment of the Scottish Executive to placing Robert Burns and his legacy at the heart of its culture and tourism policies, and to urge the Scottish Executive to assume responsibility for bringing together all interested parties to ensure that the flagship assets of our Burns heritage are properly restored and developed in good time for the major events that are planned for the 2009 year of homecoming, which marks the 250th anniversary of the birth of the national bard.At its meeting on 16 March 2005, the committee agreed to seek the views of the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport, the Burns national heritage park, VisitScotland, South Ayrshire Council, the Burns Monument Trust and the National Trust for Scotland. We have received responses from all those organisations and people, so if members want to use that information in the discussion, we can talk about both petitions at the same time.

John Scott Con Ayr
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I have a question for Bob Leitch. Has Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry done any work on the possible benefits and potential increased number of tourists that an integrated trail across the south-west of Scotland would bring? Have you any back-of-an-envelope calculations on that?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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They would be back-of-an-envelope calculations at this stage. As time has gone on, we have become more aware of the opportunity to create a bigger product. The facts show that more than 70 per cent of people who visit Scotland go to Edinburgh; many do not get much further than that. We say that that should not be the case. Although we accept that we will not be the only holiday destination, we have to work to link up with other major holiday destinations. After all, Burns spent time in Edinburgh, so if we get the product all joined up, we could create a globally known product that will attract people to Ayrshire as part of their Scottish holiday.

John Scott Con Ayr
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We appreciate the letter from Patricia Ferguson, which was given to the committee this morning. She is enthusiastic about such matters. As a representative of Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry, will you explain local feeling? Is there frustration that matters are not progressing? Is there antipathy towards the Burns concept and the feeling that, as a local man, your finger should be well on the pulse?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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We have just restructured VisitScotland and now have a new VisitScotland Prestwick, a partnership that we are pleased to be part of. Mr Riddle, the chief executive of VisitScotland has said that tourism is everyone's business; that is very much the case. As a representative organisation that looks after the interests of business in Ayrshire, we are becoming increasingly aware of the need to spread that message and encourage other people to become involved in the product.Recent happenings locally in Alloway have underlined that fact and drawn it to our attention. There have been meetings of the local authorities with VisitScotland and Scottish Natural Heritage. We are keen to promote those meetings, but we must set up a world-class project in Alloway that will attract people from throughout the world. We do not want it to be a visitor centre for people in Ayrshire, but for people outside Ayrshire as well as those of us who are lucky enough to live here. If we look out of the window this morning, we can see the weather that visitors to Ayrshire always enjoy; I hope that it stays like that. However, our VisitScotland product it is not about sun, sea and sand, but much greater things, one of which is certainly Burns.

John Scott Con Ayr
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In the past, one of the difficulties of establishing the Burns tourist trail in Ayrshire has been access. Do you acknowledge that access to Ayrshire is now better than it was? Do you wish to discuss that, bearing in mind the M77, the airport and improved rail services?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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Absolutely. We are lucky in Ayrshire to have a good transport infrastructure, which is improving all the time. Of course, there will always be room for improvement, and we support Sheena Borthwick and the need in South Ayrshire to improve the condition of the A77. If we look back over the past five, six, seven or eight years, we see that transport infrastructure has improved considerably—something that must be to Ayrshire's advantage. The airport now serves 17 destinations with flights running daily to and from Ayrshire to Europe, something that we used not to have. We now have the new road and those who travel regularly to Edinburgh have slight smiles on their faces for a change because the journey is 10 to 15 minutes quicker than it ever could have been in the past. That is great and it represents another opportunity to broaden the base of tourism in Ayrshire. The new bypass at Ardrossan and Saltcoats is a great improvement in North Ayrshire and we have a reasonable railway infrastructure. I know that we want it to be improved and believe that it should be better, but we have a frequent train service from the city centre in Glasgow to all parts of Ayrshire. Yes, we are lucky and things are getting better. We will always want more, but that is human nature.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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That is absolutely right. Although Burns is very important to the economy and the people of Ayrshire, it is even more important that people throughout the world can access sites to find out about Robert Burns. It is a national disgrace that we do not have anything for Robert Burns. As someone who has been a member of the Wallace Society for more years than I care to remember, I find it difficult to obtain funding for joined-up thinking. As you mentioned, we are lax in this country in respect of putting our heroes on pedestals. We should know about such people.I have read the responses from various organisations to PE824 and the letter from the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport dated 2 June. I welcome the responses, but matters are still at the planning stages. Much has been said about the project, but nothing has happened. Hopefully, if the committee writes to the minister and the Executive, matters can be followed up. Has a proper audit been undertaken of any heritage trails, buildings or sites by VisitScotland or the Scottish Tourist Board?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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An audit is on-going at the moment. I do not know the specifics of the audit, but I understand that Scottish Enterprise Ayrshire, the local authority and other parties that are involved in the Burns product have been looking at the current situation. That progress is good and commendable, and it is the first sign that we have seen that people are beginning to work together as far as the Burns product is concerned. That is an important step. We would like to be more involved in the process but, so far, we have not been invited to do so. It is in the interests of business in general across Ayrshire for that to happen—indeed, it would be useful if all of us were to be involved.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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You have practically answered my second question, which was to ask you about the organisations that are involved in the project, when the project was set up and when it expects to have results. You have just told us that the Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry has not been involved so far. Why is that? When was the project set up and when is it expected to finish?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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My understanding is that the project was set up only in the past few months. Everything that has happened at the Burns national heritage park has jolted people into being more aware of the need to do something more concrete.

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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The letter that we received today from Patricia Ferguson shows her enthusiasm. She makes it clear that the project is"personally important to me and that is why I have worked hard with partners".She then goes on to outline all the partners. It is very encouraging to see such a committed response, and the fact that she mentions"the Executive's plans to celebrate the 250th anniversary of Robert Burns' birth in 2009 as the Year of Homecoming."The context of the minister's response is the problems with the Robert Burns national heritage park. Clearly, PE861 raises another dimension, which is your call to be embraced in the wider partnership through the establishment of a task force. That seems to be an entirely reasonable proposal.I recommend that one of the actions that we take today is that we write to the minister welcoming her positive statement and asking her whether she will embrace the points that have been raised this morning. We should urge the minister to include in the partnership, if she can, organisations like Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry. The minister does not mention VisitScotland in her letter. One of the things that impressed me when I went to Zeebrugge last year was that I found VisitScotland literature on our arrival at the port for our return journey. I picked it up and remember seeing no mention of the Tam O'Shanter experience. Surely literature that specifically highlights Burns should be on display at ports of embarkation, airports and other points of departure from which people travel to Scotland.Two weeks ago, at the international conference that Bob Geldof addressed, Burns was mentioned on more than one occasion. Clearly, Burns is in the minds of people from Africa and all over the world. Let us be proud of that fact and let us project it. Good progress has been made, as shown by the letter from the minister.

Campbell Martin Ind West of Scotland
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First, I endorse Bob Leitch's statement on the weather in Ayrshire. However, as I am from the sub-tropical paradise of Ardrossan, I am finding it a bit chilly in Ayr today. You mentioned that Burns moved around the country a bit. That may because it is harder to hit a moving target; given his history, it was probably a good idea.My question follows from Sandra White's line of questioning. Clearly, a number of buildings around Scotland that are associated with Burns are in various conditions of repair and are under different ownership. In an ideal world, what would your best initiative be to secure the buildings and make them part of a successful Burns trail?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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That is all to do with marketing and a commitment to, belief in and understanding of the product. To return to something that John Kerr said, people will not understand the product and Burns will be alien to them if, as school children, they do not get to know about Burns as they are growing up. Alongside a marketing project that creates the trail, puts it together and brings together all the loose ends, an elementary educational job must also be done to inform children and young people about Burns and what an important asset he is to our country and to our economy. If we approach the project properly, the sky is the limit: the potential is massive. If we think of Stratford we think of Shakespeare. That is the kind of product that Burns should become for Scotland.

Adam Ingram SNP South of Scotland
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The petitioners will be aware of the National Trust for Scotland's involvement in Alloway. Do you endorse its view of Alloway as a hub, both as the starting point for a national tourism tour or a tourism trail throughout the south-west of Scotland, and for co-ordination of the national collections? Until now, we have not even had that kind of facility available to us. Have you had any discussions with the NTS? Are you aware of on-going developments?

John Kerr Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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One difficulty in respect of whether Alloway could be a hub is that that might severely depress Burns enthusiasts in Dumfries. Alloway is certainly a starting point because it is his birthplace. A difficulty that we have with Burns is that he moved around and the properties in the areas that he moved to may be under local authority control, NTS control or private ownership. The diversity of ownership of the properties creates difficulties in ensuring that there is a cohesive strategy.I have no problem—neither does Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry—with Alloway being used as the hub and the starting point. If there is an opportunity to have a central control base, it should be located in the most natural place it can be, but because of the nature of Burns's life and his works there are certainly other areas in Scotland on a potential tourist or heritage trail that would have equal importance to Alloway for different reasons. There is not a problem with having one starting point that is the hub, as long as it gives a view to the rest of the trail—whether it is done in succession or in isolated sections.

Adam Ingram SNP South of Scotland
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Has Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry recently had discussions with the players at Alloway?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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No, we have had no such discussions. We have been involved around the fringes of everything that is going on and we are concerned about everything that is going on. As I said to Sandra White in response to a previous question, we would be happy to be much more involved than we have been until now.

Adam Ingram SNP South of Scotland
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My second point is about the 2009 year of homecoming. As you are probably aware, Professor John Lennon has been commissioned by the Scottish Executive to consider how we can take full advantage of 2009. He has looked at similar events that have happened elsewhere in Europe. For example, in Ireland there is the James Joyce experience in Dublin, in Denmark there is Hans Christian Andersen and in Austria there is Mozart. There is a lot of international experience. From a business perspective, you want to ensure that you take maximum advantage and that opportunities are fully realised. What are your impressions of that effort? Have you been involved in it or consulted?

John Kerr Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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The year of homecoming is obviously a unique opportunity in the lifetime of everybody here. If it can be used as a bounce point to increase appreciation of Burns beforehand and to encourage it thereafter, that can only be a good thing. I would bow to the good Professor Lennon in whatever he comes up with in his report and deliberations. From a business and continuing heritage point of view, the year of homecoming will be an opportune time for appreciation of Burns in general. We support whole-heartedly anything that comes about from the homecoming report and that pushes matters forward once 2009 has passed.

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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That is a very important point for us. The petition is not only about the year of homecoming. The year of homecoming can be the beginning of something very big, but we need to develop a sustainable product that will continue for much longer. That is our objective in lodging the petition.

Adam Ingram SNP South of Scotland
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Will the gentlemen use their influence to persuade the authorities at Prestwick airport to change the airport's logo to a more Burns-oriented one?

Bob Leitch Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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We are tenants of the airport and had nothing whatever to do with the logo. However, whether people like it or not, the plus side is that it has generated enormous press publicity, which Prestwick would not have received after its revamp if it had not chosen that slogan. There are pluses and minuses to everything. The slogan is "Pure dead brilliant", in case the convener is wondering.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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I was just going to say that Prestwick airport is pure dead brilliant.

Adam Ingram SNP South of Scotland
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John Kerr mentioned the teaching of Burns in schools. The Robert Burns World Federation does much good work in schools. What initiatives should there be in schools in that regard?

John Kerr Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry
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The teaching of Burns is not currently part of secondary education. If a student is lucky enough to develop an appreciation of Robert Burns as a result of his or her English studies, that is normally because their English teacher or head of department appreciates Burns and wants to promote him as a poet who is worthy of review. The primary education programme in the three local authorities in Ayrshire is very good. I think that almost every Ayrshire primary school pupil has the opportunity to learn about Burns and is encouraged to participate in Burns competitions. However, I am aware of no formal structure for Burns study in the Scottish secondary education system. As I said, there should be positive discrimination on the matter. Irrespective of the petition's call for a national heritage trail, it is appalling that our education system pays no more than modest lip service to the work of our national bard. There is certainly much adult appreciation of Burns's work, but unfortunately some of that happens in the haze of Burns night once per annum, when the work is appreciated not for its poetic merit but in relation to something more liquid.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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We will want to pursue the matter with the Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport. Like Helen Eadie, I am pleased by the minister's commitment to the issue. However, it is important that we ascertain her views on Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry's call for the establishment of a task force. Are members happy to write to the minister for clarification on the matter?

John Scott Con Ayr
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I, too, welcome the minister's response, which we received this morning. However, we must press on. It is 2005 and the year of homecoming is not far away. As Bob Leitch says, we are not talking about an event that happens once a year; we are talking about the sustainability of Burns and the absolute necessity of grasping with both hands the opportunity that marketing Burns offers Ayrshire and south-west Scotland. It would be foolhardy not to grasp that opportunity. We should ask the minister when plans will be forthcoming. We have all shared in the talking and the wringing of hands and we need to press on. We welcome the involvement of the National Trust for Scotland and I have every confidence that Patricia Ferguson will deliver on her welcome commitments. However, we would like the plans to progress.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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I agree. We have the minister's letter, but it is important that we find out what is going to happen. Bob Leitch said that an audit process has started, but Ayrshire Chamber of Commerce and Industry is not involved in it. We should ask the council who is involved and what is happening with the audit of heritage trail sites. There needs to be joined-up thinking.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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We will start by seeking a response from the minister and then consider what is happening at local level. This is a policy that must be pulled together from the centre. Members are not always happy with that approach, but the policy is not specific to one local authority because it covers the whole of Scotland and all of us will benefit from it if it is implemented properly. At some point, we could find out how everything ties in.When we communicate with ministers and call them to give evidence to us, we have usually not been happy with the responses that we have received. In the light of the commitment that the minister has given us, it may be worth our exploring in person with her what we can do. Would members be happy for me to extend an invitation to the minister to discuss the issue with us in committee? Given the time constraints, we do not want to put off doing that for too long. We could give the minister the options of responding to us in writing or accepting an invitation to discuss the issue with us. We will not be able to progress the matter before the autumn, but if my suggestion is taken up we may be able to move forward more quickly.

John Scott Con Ayr
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The point should be made—it is better that I make it than that Mike Watson and Helen Eadie do so—that we would welcome hearing from the minister, given that thus far we are pleased with what she has done. That contrasts with what has happened in the past, when we have called ministers before us because we are less than happy about what they have done. The convener talked about the need to drive the project from the centre. That is important, because the project requires partnership working and leadership. The little that I have seen suggests that the minister is best placed to provide that. Once the project has been established sustainably, there may be an opportunity for the minister to divest herself of the responsibility that she has taken on. In the meantime, the matter is in her hands.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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Are members happy to write to the minister, extending to her an invitation to meet us? If she is unable to do so, we will seek a detailed response to PE861 and will continue to have a dialogue with her, either in writing or in person.Members indicated agreement.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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I thank the petitioners for bringing the matter to our attention.Before we close PE824, shall we write to Mr Watson and ask him what he thinks about the responses to his petition?Members indicated agreement.

Michael McMahon Lab The Convener · Hamilton North and Bellshill
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I will keep members posted on progress.If members of the public wish to leave the room for comfort breaks, they are entitled to do so. People should not feel that they must remain here or that they may not come back in if they leave.

  1. Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee Monday 6 June 2005 Petitions · 8
  2. New Petitions Petitions · 80
  3. New Petitions Petitions · 61
  4. New Petitions Petitions · 38
  5. New Petitions Petitions · 40
  6. Current Petitions Petitions · 22

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