Parliament Workbench
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Official Report · Committee

New Petitions

Genetically Modified Crops (PE470)

Tuesday 12 March 2002 Public Petitions Committee Petitions 77 contributions · 11 speakers

Speakers

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The record

77 contributions
John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Petition PE470, from Mr Anthony Jackson, is on the subject of farm-scale evaluations of genetically modified crops. It calls on the Parliament to take the necessary steps to end immediately the farm-scale evaluations of GM crops and to debate the future handling of GM crops in Scotland. As well as Mr Jackson, Linda Martin and Nigel Mullan are at the meeting. I think that Linda Martin will speak to the petition.

Linda Martin
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Ninety-two per cent of the population of Munlochy opposes the GM trials because of the harm that the farm-scale evaluation could cause to health and the environment. When the experimental crop flowers, villagers have no option but to inhale the pollen, which makes them part of the experiment. There is also major opposition to the farm-scale evaluation programme in Aberdeenshire and Fife, where public anger is vocal and widespread. Concern and outrage motivated the Highland community to establish and maintain a vigil beside the crop. Overwintering beside the crop evidenced the level of public concern. The number of people who have signed the petition is 4,114, which is equivalent to the population of the Black Isle.The issue is about science, democracy and economics. People live close to the crops and must suffer the untested effects on their health and livelihoods. Their actions as consumers, communities and businesses have demonstrated that they want neither farm-scale evaluations nor products made from GM ingredients.Charles Saunders, chairman of the British Medical Association's Scottish committee for public health medicine and community health, declared that the Scottish Executive is taking a gamble with our health. He stated of the trials:"We simply don't have enough scientific evidence on their safety to be able to make a valid decision as to whether there are potential health effects or not."No testing has been carried out on the health of the people of Munlochy, Daviot, Rothienorman or Newport-on-Tay. No baseline has been set, which leads to a complete lack of confidence in the trials. Until reliable and valid evidence provides evidence that the trials are safe, the Scottish Executive should invoke the precautionary principle and comply with European Union directives 90/220/EEC and 2001/18/EC.The limitations of the trials and the concerns over their monitoring and overall conduct call into question their validity and reliability. One example is the use of different varieties and ever-changing sowing rates. The rate is currently 250 seeds per square metre; it was originally 120 per square metre. That compares with 60 seeds per square metre for a good commercial crop. Those figures question strongly the validity of the science, as do the differing growth habits and weed numbers in the trial and control crops at Munlochy. The trial crop's genetic stability and its resistance to glufosinate ammonium have been questioned, as has the associated run-off into the village and the Munlochy bay environmentally sensitive area. In connection with the trials, GA is licensed only for winter use, and a court case is pending over that consent. According to the science editor of The Sunday Times, the preliminary results show that the trials are damaging the environment. In an answer to a written question, the Executive stated that it understands that no interim results yet exist. If there is such evidence, it should be in the public domain, as stipulated in article 8 of the relevant EU directive, and it should be acted on, in accordance with article 4. Mr Finnie has repeatedly said that, if there was evidence of a threat or risk to the environment, he would stop the trials. Supermarkets do not use GM produce in their own-brand goods, 79 per cent of Europeans do not want it and there are serious international concerns over the adequacy of the safety-testing procedures for GM foods. The demand for genetically modified produce has collapsed, so why are we risking people's health and the environment for a product without commercial prospects?Scotland has an opportunity to listen to the public and to reinforce its environmental assets. It must seize that opportunity and act now, rather than dealing with the aftermath, as was the case with BSE and foot-and-mouth disease. GM produce will not restore public confidence in the food chain or in the farming industry. The trials must be stopped immediately. Parliament must have a full debate—with a free vote in order to reflect cross-party support and political concern—to give the issue a democratic hearing.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Before I invite Robin Harper and Tricia Marwick to speak, I inform members that we have received a large number of letters in support of the petition. Many of the letters are from local residents—those are the ones in the box that is before us. There are also letters from local MPs, MSPs—Rhoda Grant and Maureen Macmillan—Highland Council representatives, five local businesses and a range of environmental organisations. All that material is available to committee members who wish to see it.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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I am a signatory to the petition as well as a long-time supporter of the cause. What comes to mind immediately is the latest news from Canada that genetically modified oil-seed rape is now cross-pollinating with related brassicas in the wild. That is a matter of great concern to me. Do our witnesses agree that that suggests that what was originally mooted as a possibility is now a fact and that the crop should not be allowed to flower?

Anthony Jackson
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Absolutely. The—

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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I am sorry to interrupt, but, technically, Robin Harper is meant simply to make a statement in support of the petition. However, please continue—you may answer the question.

Anthony Jackson
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The problem lies in something called gene stacking. Oil-seed rape has been genetically modified to be used with a particular herbicide, which is produced by the same company that produces the seed. That company therefore has a monopoly. If commercialisation happened in Scotland, Aventis would grow only some crops and Monsanto would grow others. There would be tolerance to two herbicides. Therefore, once the crop cross-pollinated with wild brassicas, the only way in which volunteers in the field could control it over a period of years would be by using such herbicides as Paraquat and 2,4-D, which is derived from Agent Orange. That is the level to which we will go.

Tricia Marwick SNP Mid Scotland and Fife
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I am here to support the petition. I apologise on behalf of my colleagues Fergus Ewing and Bruce Crawford, who have to attend other committee meetings this morning. I know that they would want to be here. I support the petition's call for a debate in the Parliament, but my main concern is the situation in Newport-on-Tay. Trials are proposed there for the next few weeks, if the Minister for Environment and Rural Development gives the go-ahead. There were two public meetings in Newport-on-Tay last week, one of which was organised by the Executive and the other by the community. I spoke at the second meeting—I have rarely seen such anger from a community as I saw on Friday night in Newport, where a steering group has been set up. What makes people so angry is the fact that the communities have to prove that there is a risk, whereas the seed manufacturers do not have to prove the product's safety. The minister has made it clear that, unless risk is proved, trials will go ahead. I reiterate the fact that there is no onus on the seed manufacturers to prove that the product is safe before the trials are carried out. That places communities in an appalling situation.I hope that the Public Petitions Committee will support the petitioners' call. We must adopt the precautionary principle that the trials should be halted until the seed manufacturers and the Executive can convince people in the areas where the trials are to take place and, more important, people throughout Scotland that there is no risk to their health and the health of their children or to the health of future generations.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
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Good morning. The advice that was given when the issue was first debated in the Scottish Parliament was that, because of a European Union directive, the Executive had no locus to do anything other than to approve the GM crop trials. Since then, I have received information that the type of trial that we are discussing is of little concern to our friends in Europe and that the responsibility for approving or rejecting such a trial is vested in the Scottish Executive. Will you give us information on that?

Anthony Jackson
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Absolutely. There are two kinds of consent for trials. Part B consent is for experimental releases and part C consent is for commercialisation. The oil-seed rape in question does not have part C consent, so it cannot enter the food chain. However, birds such as pheasants are wandering over the crop and have been doing so since the seeds were sown. Part B consents are entirely in the hands of the Scottish Executive. The Executive is classed as the competent authority, so it can do what it likes—it could halt the trials tomorrow.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
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I am sure that, as a group, you have made that information known to the Executive and others. What sort of response have you had?

Anthony Jackson
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Mr Finnie's response is that, unless he has evidence of a threat to the environment or to human health, he can do nothing. However, evidence of environmental damage can be found. The Sunday Times article declared that the preliminary results for the first two years of the trials showed that that was the case. I ask the committee to try to get hold of that information and to put it in the public domain. If the evidence exists, Mr Finnie must act—that is a legal requirement. Linda Martin spoke about health. Charles Saunders, the chairman of the BMA's Scottish committee for public health, said that there is no health testing, so how can anyone prove that there is a risk? The situation is outrageous.

Nigel Mullan
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I reinforce that point. Members might have seen the Sunday Herald article by Rob Edwards, in which he made the commercial complaint that no insurance companies are willing to assist any liability schemes for farmers who are conducting the trials. An organic farmer who is five miles away from a trial site suffers a real risk of contamination and hence of losing Soil Association accreditation. There is no insurance to help such farmers if their businesses go down the tubes. The fact that commercial companies have picked up those signals is a sure-fire indication that concern is not just coming from environmentalists or loonies, but is reflected in hard banking terms.Syngenta, a large biotechnology company that has been heavily involved in genetic engineering and has a large genetic engineering capacity, has not been involved in any European trials. It is trying to push something through in the south of India, but that is another story. It is moving away from involvement in GM food or seed. It is going for zero tolerance on contamination. Syngenta is a big producer of oil-seed rape. Five years ago, it had about 1 per cent of the market share of oil-seed rape; this year, it will have about 50 per cent of the market share. It produces non-GM oil-seed rape using a new technique—marker-assisted breeding—that does not involve interference with the genome. Even if we leave aside the insurance angle, that is an instance of a significant biotech company backing down from field-scale evaluations and the commercialisation of GM food and seed.

John Farquhar Munro LD Ross, Skye and Inverness West
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I read the article with a great deal of interest. In the past, it was generally known that it was not possible to insure against contamination of or damage to crops or the environment. You make the point that that could be detrimental to organisations that are peripheral to the crop trial. It also has a significant effect on the trial site—on the owner or the promoter of the scheme. I am sure that any claims against them would not be insurable either. That fact is well established, although it is now in the public domain and available to everybody.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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I am concerned that there was a lack of consultation on the scheme before the crop was planted. The local community got together and held meetings, but those had little or no effect. I understand that the EU directive that was in place at the time—which, according to the Scottish Executive, did not allow it to prevent the trials—was being amended to enable consultation to take place and to ensure that the consultation was meaningful. Do you know whether that has made any difference to the current set-up?

Linda Martin
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The new directive does not come into force until October. At the moment, we have a crop on top of a hill; that crop will flower. There are serious concerns about that. An entire village is terrified about what will happen when the crop flowers.I take the committee back to what John Farquhar Munro said about the Executive. Under the precautionary principle, the Executive has a duty to act. If I provide members with a definition of the precautionary principle, they will be able to see why it is easy for the Executive to pull the trial. The definition states:"Where an activity raises threats of harm to human health or the environment, precautionary measures should be invoked even if some cause and effect relationships are not established in scientific fact".We do not even need scientific fact to pull the trial. However, as Robin Harper said, we have scientific fact. Why are crop trials going ahead anywhere when we know that they are damaging the environment? The herbicide that is being used causes reproduction problems in rats and problems with the nervous system in humans. We know that that herbicide is coming down the hill towards us. How would members feel in that situation?

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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During the previous round of debates on the issue, we received advice that the Scottish Parliament was unable to impose a blanket ban on the GM crops. Given that there is now new evidence, do you think that we should redirect the petition to the European Parliament Petitions Committee? If GM is an issue in Scotland, it must be an issue throughout Europe. Given that the directive was issued by the European Union, it may be appropriate for us to send the information that Robin Harper provides in his letter to the European Parliament Petitions Committee.

Linda Martin
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Would that halt the FSEs now, or would we have to wait for the European Parliament Petitions Committee to deal with our petition before that happened?

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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You could ask for a moratorium on current trials to be introduced, on the basis of the information that you have supplied.

Anthony Jackson
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A moratorium in Europe?

Anthony Jackson
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The farm-scale evaluations are an entirely Scottish issue. The Scottish Executive is the competent authority for dealing with part B consents.

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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When Ross Finnie spoke in the debate in the Scottish Parliament, he said that he was acting on the legal advice from Europe that the Scottish Executive had at that time. As a European member state, we were bound by that legal advice.

Anthony Jackson
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A blanket ban on growing GM crops is different. A part C consent is a commercial licence under European legislation. There is no commercial licence for the oil-seed rape that is grown in Scotland at the moment; there are only part B consents, which are in the hands of the Scottish Executive. The Scottish Parliament information centre literature states that the Scottish Executive is the competent authority for part B consents.

Dorothy-Grace Elder SNP Glasgow
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Are you aware of the carelessness that has occurred every so often in relation to GM crops? I dare say that you are better informed than almost anyone in the country. Do you recall that Mr Finnie admitted in May 2000 that seeds had been planted illegally and that fields had to be pulled up? There had been almost a month's delay in Westminster's letting the Scottish Executive know that it had heard from Advanta Seeds in Canada that rogue seeds had got through. Mr Finnie did not admit that at the time but the answer that I received to a question a week later stated that an illegal harvest had taken place in 1999, the products of which were in the food chain. Apart from having the terrible site on your doorstep, which you do not want, do you have any indicators of carelessness in the handling of the project?

Anthony Jackson
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Indeed. An authority, if I can use that word, called SCIMAC—the supply chain initiative on modified agricultural crops—designates the guidelines for the planting of the crops. Given that SCIMAC is a biotechnology industry body, the industry decides the guidelines for the planting of the crop. The farmer—farmer Grant—has broken the guidelines on numerous occasions, not least when he planted winter wheat within three days of harvesting last year's oil-seed rape trial. There is supposed to be a three-week gap so that any seeds that are shed in harvesting can regenerate themselves and be ploughed back in. That way there are fewer so-called volunteers—the oil-seed rape coming back through. Volunteers are coming through because Mr Grant left only three days between harvesting the trial crop and planting winter wheat. It is all very well to say that the fields have been sprayed, but we noticed the volunteers and pointed them out to the Scottish Agricultural Science Agency, which is supposed to be the regulatory authority. SCIMAC's response was that things were different in Scotland. If that is the case, why was Mr Grant still planting cereal crops in October and why are the consents not different in Scotland? The system is shambolic.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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I refer back to Helen Eadie's point that the Scottish Executive cannot impose a blanket ban. That suggests to me that it can impose a ban where circumstances are such that it is reasonable to do so.My concern with GM trials is the irreversibility of their results. Containment must be the basis on which any trial should go ahead, although I acknowledge how difficult that is.We seem to have taken a general approach to petition PE470. I know that that is the Public Petitions Committee's usual approach. However, given that the Government cannot deal with the matter in general terms and impose a blanket ban, do you agree that the petition should concentrate on the Munlochy scheme? If it did, the committee could make a judgment on a response from the Scottish Executive based on that scheme only.

Linda Martin
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The problem does not apply only to Munlochy. Every mother has a child. I do not want a GM trial site next to my village, but I do not want it next to anybody else's village either. We have severe problems with the site. When the oil-seed rape flowers, we are worried about what it will do to people's health. We know that there are problems with herbicides as well.If the trial is not good for Munlochy, why would a trial be good for Newport and Aberdeen? The site at Munlochy is close to a population centre—it is less than a mile away. It is also in the middle of three sites of special scientific interest. However, that is not to say that there are not similar problems in Newport or Aberdeen.The science is untried and untested. The risk assessment has not been correctly done. There is no testing on human health. None of the local doctors has been involved. We have no baseline study. We do not even know the effects that GM foods are having on Americans, because no testing has been done in America, either.Because no baseline study has been done, if there was a huge incident in five years' time, we could not even track it back to GM. There is no risk assessment, but—let us be perfectly honest—risk should be assessed as new evidence comes in. To say that a risk assessment was done two years ago—or whenever it was that Ross Finnie first looked at the issue—is not good enough. Information comes in daily. In the past fortnight alone, three or four scientists have said in the press, "We don't want this. We don't want it because it is not science." That is the problem that I have. How do I know the effects that GM crops will have on people's health?I admit that Munlochy is where I come from and that I cherish it, but I care about other human beings as well, and I do not see why Newport or Aberdeen or anywhere else should have to put up with a trial. If it is not good enough for me and I do not want it, why should somebody else get it?

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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I accept all those arguments and I understand the way in which you are looking at the issue. However, you have rejected Helen Eadie's idea of taking the matter to Europe, where a wider range of issues would be considered. I have been looking at letters, which even I—and I live far from the area—have received about Munlochy. The letters say that the specific geographic conditions in the area are certainly not suitable for the GM trials that are going on.You cannot win the battle overnight. We are told by Ross Finnie that he cannot impose a blanket ban but that he can impose a local ban. If you nip away at the issue, site by site, you may achieve your aims. That is what I suggest.

Nigel Mullan
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If you read what Ross Finnie said during the parliamentary debate when he was pushed on whether he could impose a ban, you will see that he havered slightly. He did not want to be pushed into a legal situation. It is worth while having a look at that debate. When the Transport and the Environment Committee discussed pulling trials under part B consents, it, too, was of the mind that the matter was properly one for the courts. What was so encouraging about the debate in the Scottish Parliament and the subsequent discussions in the Transport and the Environment Committee was the level of genuine concern. There was almost a feeling that, if there had been a little more political will, the trials could have been pulled.I support what Linda Martin said about health tests, which are very important. We can do environmental tests and all that kind of thing, but tests for human health are very important. The Transport and the Environment Committee recommended that far more research should be done. I urge this committee to consider that.

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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It is grossly unfair to say that Ross Finnie havered in any way. He was abundantly clear about where he stood and he was abundantly clear that, because of an EU directive, he did not have the power to impose a blanket ban. However, that does not mean that people around this table will be unsympathetic to the petitioners' views if there is new evidence. If you have a door that you need to unlock to solve a particular problem, you need to knock on the appropriate door. If what you are saying is accurate and correct, and can be scientifically proven, a challenge must be made—and not just here in Scotland. Pollen knows no boundaries. If a problem arises in Scotland, it will also be a problem in England and other countries. You will have to find the right door and knock on it, so it is grossly unfair to attack the minister.

Nigel Mullan
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I was not attacking the minister; I was saying that the discussions in the Parliament, across the parties, have been encouraging and that we would like to encourage more discussions now.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We have all been guilty of havering at one time or another.

Tricia Marwick SNP Mid Scotland and Fife
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Heaven forfend that any of us should haver, John. I certainly do not—not often, anyway.Helen Eadie is right to say that the problem goes wider than Scotland, but the petitioners are right to say that the problem has to be resolved in Scotland. We have a Scottish Parliament and Ross Finnie is the minister responsible for the trials. He was responsible for agreeing to the trials that are taking place in Munlochy and he will be responsible for the decision on whether trials will go ahead in Newport.Although Helen Eadie's suggestion about going to the European Parliament Petitions Committee is a good idea, it does not affect the immediate problems that need to be resolved in Scotland. I see heads nodding, so I will not put that as a question, because I think that the petitioners agree with me.Linda, you quoted Dr Charles Saunders, who said that the Executive is gambling with our health. Dr Saunders is not only a member of the BMA; he is a public health officer in Fife, where the Newport trials are destined to start within the next few weeks. When you spoke about the precautionary principle, you read out a quotation saying that the minister has to believe only that there might be some risk and that that would be sufficient to halt the trials. Do you think that the fact that someone from public health in Fife, where the next trials are to be held, is talking about gambling with public health is sufficient reason for the Executive to stop the trials?

Linda Martin
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Yes.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Would a ban on the farm-scale evaluations at Munlochy and in Aberdeenshire and Fife constitute a blanket ban as referred to by the Executive?

Anthony Jackson
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No. The issue of a blanket ban comes back to the part B and part C consents. We are not talking about commercialisation. The trials are an experimental release and, as far as we are aware and as far as the parliamentary documentation makes out, the Scottish Executive is the competent authority for part B releases. We are not talking about a blanket ban on commercial crops. Once a crop has a commercial licence in Europe, it can be grown anywhere by any farmer in Europe. That is a separate issue.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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When the Transport and the Environment Committee published the findings of its inquiry, did it address the issue of a possible ban on the three sites?

Anthony Jackson
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The Transport and the Environment Committee discussed all GM organism releases. That would involve part B and part C releases. We are talking about part B releases.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The Transport and the Environment Committee did not address exclusively the issue of part B consents.

Anthony Jackson
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No.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Since that committee published its report in January 2001, all kinds of new information have emerged.

Anthony Jackson
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Absolutely, as well as public outrage and protest. The trials started in January 2001 and we have seen what a shambles they are and what people think of them. There has also been plenty of new research.

Dorothy-Grace Elder SNP Glasgow
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We should note the date that the convener mentioned—January 2001. We had first notification of foot-and-mouth disease in February 2001. I am not defending the minister in any way, because I have urged him to use the precautionary principle in other matters. However, I suggest that, from the moment that foot-and-mouth disease was announced, the minister became totally absorbed in that crisis, which is only now receding. Unfortunately, the plantings took place during that period. The issue of GM crops has definitely taken a back seat because of all our other appalling agricultural problems. It is now time to get back into the fray—I do not need to tell you that. Ministers should be getting back into the fray.I urge you to accept the advice to go to the EU. The process is extremely easy. You can submit an electronic petition and one of you can go over to the European Parliament—the trip will be paid for if the petition is accepted.The minister certainly has powers under the precautionary principle. Phil Gallie raised an important point and I note that you are being extremely noble, proper and correct in not wanting other areas of Scotland to be infected. However, environmental matters are sometimes a bit like guerrilla warfare. If you deal with the issue in your area, that will help people in the next area—such as Tricia Marwick's area—and you can keep up a running battle to drive the GM experiment right out of Scotland. I do not see what anyone is getting out of it, especially the minister. He would be enormously popular if he declared against the GM experiment and stopped the trials. No one can understand, except perhaps, we suspect, certain supermarket chains.

Linda Martin
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Multinationals.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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It is important to remember that the Transport and the Environment Committee report was, in some respects, a majority report. Three members of the committee seriously disagreed with some of the report's findings, particularly the failure to recommend a ban on farm-scale evaluations. The three members who disagreed with that point felt that we had not heard any evidence to support the continuation of the trials and that we had heard enough evidence to convince us that our initial conviction that such trials should be stopped was correct.I agree that the issue should go to Europe. The subject is being discussed and has already been discussed in the European Parliament, which is in continuous dialogue with the Commission on revising the rules on GM research and planting. It would not do any harm, although it would be a diversion, to consider sending the petition to Europe as the result of today's meeting. We are discussing part B consent. It is perfectly clear that the Parliament should consider on the narrow basis of part B consents whether the minister should reconsider his original decision. I strongly recommend that the petition be sent to an appropriate committee to look again at the position.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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It is obvious from the last two sets of comments that the committee has run out of questions. However, I have one final question. The suggested action before the committee is that we pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee because it has already produced a report on the issue. Would the petitioners support that action?

Anthony Jackson
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Yes. However, as Charles Saunders has spoken out about the uncertainty of the health effects, would it be possible for the Health and Community Care Committee to speak to some health experts about the lack of health monitoring? That issue is vital.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We shall discuss the recommendation.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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In a sense, the petition also raises local government and human rights issues because it calls into question the whole function and purpose of local consultations. So far, only one view has been expressed during the local consultations and that view has been completely ignored.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Are such consultations carried out under the auspices of local authorities?

Tricia Marwick SNP Mid Scotland and Fife
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No. The event in Newport was organised by the Scottish Executive. It was not a consultation evening, but an information-giving evening. That is the extent of the consultation that communities have been offered—not consultation, but information giving.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Robin Harper seemed to be suggesting that the petition should go to the Local Government Committee.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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No, I was thinking of one of the justice committees.

Linda Martin
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What happens to FSEs in the meantime? Do we have to sit there, watching the thing growing and breathing it in? Is that okay with the Scottish Parliament? Is that what we are being told?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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That is a matter for the Scottish Executive. If the Scottish Executive can maintain its support in the Parliament, it can certainly say that there is nothing that it can do about FSEs. However, the Executive must maintain support in the Parliament. That is why the petition should go to the appropriate committee—the Transport and the Environment Committee—to address the issue of what happens to farm-scale evaluations in the meantime and what action the Parliament can take in relation to what the Executive intends.If the questions to the petitioners are finished, we can move on to discuss what we should do with the petition. The suggestion is that we refer it to the Transport and the Environment Committee with the recommendation that it addresses the new issues that the petition raises.

Dorothy-Grace Elder SNP Glasgow
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I was going to suggest that this might be the right time to send a copy of the petition to the First Minister, given his recent speech on environmental justice—that is a good phrase. He may wish to collect examples of environmental injustice, where a local community has had something to which it is totally and utterly opposed forced on it. I see no harm in sending him a copy of the petition. It is unusual for us to refer a petition to the First Minister but, in view of his speech and commitment, it might be helpful to do so in this case.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We can copy the petition to the First Minister for his information when we pass it to the Transport and the Environment Committee.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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I apologise for returning to the issue of Munlochy. I wonder what the minister considers before he authorises trials of genetically modified crops. I would like the committee to write to Ross Finnie, asking him what consideration is given to protection for communities and risk. We should also ask what liaison he has with those who are responsible for health matters. If we get information from the minister, it will help to clarify matters in the many future arguments that we will have on these issues.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The problem is that the Transport and the Environment Committee will be dealing with the petition, so it is for that committee to do what you suggest. We can recommend that the Transport and the Environment Committee look into the part B consent procedures and in particular at the assessments that ministers make of the risk of damage to health and the environment. However, the petition is the Transport and the Environment Committee's property once it leaves this committee. The Transport and the Environment Committee has already carried out an inquiry into the issue and it is better versed than we are in the ins and outs of the subject. We should draw those points to the attention of the Transport and the Environment Committee and say that they are the recommendations of this committee.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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I acknowledge what you are saying, convener, and it is probably correct in the context of the niceties of the Parliament, but the people in Munlochy feel a sense of great urgency. We all know what happens when petitions are passed on to other committees; they tend to go on the back burner, for good reasons in many instances. We have spent a lot of time this morning—the best part of three quarters of an hour—on PE470. It is only right and courteous to the people to whom we have listened that this should be one occasion on which we stretch out a little. I do not see that we will do any harm to anyone by writing to Ross Finnie.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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If we write to Ross Finnie, that will delay the petition's referral to the Transport and the Environment Committee and it will delay any action being taken—it will further delay the process.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We cannot—once the petition goes to the Transport and the Environment Committee, under the Parliament's rules, it is no longer our property and we can no longer act on it, because it has been formally passed to the Transport and the Environment Committee for action. We can draw that committee's attention to the need for urgency and ask it to address the issue as a matter of urgency because of what the petitioners have said this morning, but it is for the policy committee, not us, to address the issue.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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I realise that it is not normal practice to refer a petition directly to a minister, but I do not see that it would slow down the process.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We can refer the petition and even a copy of the Official Report to the First Minister and to Ross Finnie, the Minister for Environment and Rural Development, for their information, but the action on the petition is now for the Transport and the Environment Committee to take.

Robin Harper Green Lothians
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I understand that, but I agree strongly with what Phil Gallie said—I ought to have said it first. Given the urgency of the issue, the petition should go to Ross Finnie in the hope that he might do something.

Helen Eadie Lab Dunfermline East
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In support of the convener and in answer to Robin Harper's point, I should add that it is not at all unusual to refer matters to the Scottish Executive, but the practice is that we always wait for a reply before we decide what to do. If the decision is to send the petition to a committee, that is what we do. That is what the convener is saying. He is correct.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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Could we have a compromise, convener? Could we write to the Transport and the Environment Committee and say that with many apologies we have taken the matter into our own hands by making inquiries of the minister? I am sure that that would satisfy the niceties of Parliament.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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I am advised that we must do one or the other. We cannot do both.

Rhoda Grant Lab Highlands and Islands
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I suggest that we send the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee and mark it as urgent. We should draw attention to the petitioners' point that the crop is about to flower and to their other concerns and we should ask that committee to consider whether the precautionary principle can be exercised. Underlining the urgency of the issue and including a copy of the Official Report of our meeting might be the fastest way of dealing with the petition.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We can also recommend that the Transport and the Environment Committee consider referring the petition to the Health and Community Care Committee, because of the health implications.

Phil Gallie Con South of Scotland
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If that is what people want to do, I will not cause division. It would be in order for every MSP who has a constituency interest to write to the minister to ask for the information that we have discussed. That might be a way ahead for those who have a specific interest.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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It is also in order for every committee member to so write, as an individual MSP.Is the proposed action agreed?Members indicated agreement.

  1. Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee Tuesday 12 March 2002 (Morning) Petitions · 2
  2. New Petitions Petitions · 38
  3. New Petitions Petitions · 66
  4. New Petitions Petitions · 77
  5. New Petitions Petitions · 21
  6. New Petitions Petitions · 5
  7. New Petitions Petitions · 1
  8. New Petitions Petitions · 1
  9. Current Petitions Petitions · 5
  10. Current Petitions Petitions · 5
  11. Current Petitions Petitions · 8
  12. Current Petitions Petitions · 24
  13. Convener's Report Procedure · 2

The type of each item (debate, statement, questions, members’ business and so on) and the times shown are worked out by this site from headings, the chair’s opening words and the Official Report’s running timestamps. They are not the Parliament’s own classification. Text: the Scottish Parliament Official Report.