Petition PE414, from Mr Stuart Philips, is on planning decisions. The petition has 256 signatures. Mr Philips is here to address the committee.
Official Report · Committee
New Petitions
Planning System (Appeals) (PE414)
Speakers
Choose an MSP to read only their contributions- John McAllion Lab 14
- Stuart Philips 9
- Phil Gallie Con 5
- Rhoda Grant Lab 3
- Councillor Frank Ellis 1
- Councillor Ellis 1
- John Farquhar Munro LD 1
- Helen Eadie Lab 1
The record
35 contributionsGood morning and thank you for allowing me to speak to the committee this morning. I am here today because of a highly contentious planning application concerning Birkhill, by Dundee, and the residents of Dronley Road in particular. The first planning application was withdrawn by the applicant because of road safety concerns that had been raised. The plans were resubmitted and the only change was that the roundabout had been moved further along Dronley Road. That will present considerable danger to my immediate neighbours and me. I draw the committee's attention to appendix A, paragraph 3.1.
I should have mentioned at the start that you submitted additional information, although we have only one copy. However, it is available to members to read. I should remind everyone that we cannot consider individual planning cases.
Appendix A relates to the reports sent to Angus Council. The report states:"Tayside Police have suggested that the roundabout is poorly positioned and should be developed further south opposite an area of public open space."Appendix B contains part of the reporter's findings. He states:"I agree that access to the existing 22 Dronley Road direct from the proposed roundabout is not ideal".The planning application was discussed with Angus Council, which recognised the problems that were being created and therefore refused the application. The applicant then applied to the Scottish Executive, whose reporter overturned Angus Council's decision. Why should one person be allowed to overturn a decision made by due democratic process? If the planning committee had approved the plans, the residents would have had no right of appeal—we would have had to accept that decision. However, the applicants have a right to appeal to the Scottish Executive. It appears that the system is totally biased in favour of the applicant.Appendix C is the submission that the applicant made to the reporter. The last sentence of paragraph 12 states:"The occupants of 22 Dronley Road might experience a measure of disturbance from car headlights in the dark winter evenings".Paragraph 14 states:"Ninety dwellings would generate a minimal number of trips, and would not give rise to environmental problems."Paragraph 15 states:"The engineers advise that if there was a further access"via the previously constructed drive"there would be an impact on the amenity of adjacent neighbours, including glare from headlights."Appendix D is a map showing the position of the new roundabout. That roundabout would result in my property being subject to light and noise pollution, which would adversely affect our amenity. That seems to be of no consequence to the developer.This is a case of discrimination against us and the operation of double standards. Our human rights seem to be being breached, but the cost of taking court action to defend those rights is outwith my means. I would like this committee to consider a system whereby individuals of limited means can receive the justice that is their right. We have a new Parliament in Scotland; let us have a better, more democratic and fairer system for our planning laws, which should not be ruled by bankroll accountability. There is no point in granting the people of Scotland rights if those rights are placed outwith their financial reach.
Thank you, Mr Philips. Could you introduce your colleague?
This is Mr Frank Ellis, who is the councillor for our area.
Do any members wish to ask questions? Rhona Brankin? Laughter.
It is all right; I have been called worse. How do the witnesses feel that the issue should be dealt with? Should you be treated in the same way as the developer or the council, or is there another mechanism that you feel you should be able to use? I appreciate that the Court of Session is outwith your reach.
If the council grants the developer planning permission, we have no right to appeal against that decision. However, if the council rejects the planning application, the developer has the right to go to the Scottish Executive. Objectors have no right of appeal at all. The only course left to us is through the Court of Session. My solicitor has told me that there is no point in taking that course of action because the cost is totally horrendous. It is outwith the means of any normal working person. Objectors have no redress at all.
Would you like the same right to appeal to the Scottish Executive?
Yes.
There was a report recently on standards in public life. I do not have it with me, but members can check that it says that third-party involvement—that is, the involvement of objectors—could be taken into account. The only downside of that mentioned in the report was that the work load could be overwhelming. Whoever makes decisions should be accountable to objectors.Members will be aware that the Minister for Transport and Planning, Sarah Boyack, launched a four-month consultation on planning reforms. Surely, as part of that, this kind of issue could be taken on board. Things should be transparent and people should be accountable.
The petition raises points about the role of the Scottish Executive. Rather than giving objectors the right to appeal, should we acknowledge the role of local democracy? We elect local councillors to make planning decisions and the Scottish Executive should not be able to overturn issues that have been decided locally.
My objection is this: Angus Council sat round the table with elected members from the area—people who know the area—but one person seemed to have the right to overrule a democratic decision. One person has overturned a decision that was made by the Angus Council planning committee.
I accept that. In effect, the Scottish Executive has removed the powers of the local authority to determine the outcome. Should the Executive be removed from the scene, leaving decisions to the local authority? In most circumstances, it would be reasonable to allow an appeal process, but should that be kept at local authority level? Should the system be changed to that extent?
Yes, it should.
The appeals system for planning was introduced in 1947, as members will know. I am not saying that it has worked perfectly but it has worked. However, controversial issues with wide implications, including human rights implications—we have all signed up to human rights—mean that we will have to review the planning system. Mr Philips's human rights have been infringed by an Executive decision. That has to be challenged. We thought that the best people to consider how to make progress with that challenge were members of the Parliament. There has to be reform.
The letter that Mr Philips sent to the committee suggested that, when Angus Council was considering the matter,"There was, and still is, an opportunity to design a much improved road network that will ensure safety, and an improved amenity for existing, and also the new residents of the site".I take it that that opportunity is not included in the proposal that the Executive has approved.
No.
So the proposal interferes with your rights, your amenity and so on.
Yes.
Thank you for your evidence. You are welcome to listen to our deliberations about what to do with the petition.Essentially, the petition calls for something that other petitions that we have dealt with have called for: the third-party right of appeal against planning decisions. As members will know, we have passed a number of those petitions to the Transport and the Environment Committee, which currently has no plans to conduct an inquiry into the planning system or the third-party right of appeal. As the petitioners have said, the Executive is carrying out a review of strategic planning. However, that review deals with the structure in local plan procedures rather than with processes relating to individual planning applications. We are in a bit of a bind. The suggestion is that, because no one in the Scottish Parliament is acting on the petitions, we again ask the Scottish Executive to respond to the points in the petition, particularly the point about third-party rights of appeal and planning decisions, and that we consider what to do when we get a response. We cannot simply pass the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee and allow it to leave it on the back burner.
I would like to move away from the individual case and deal with the overall principles.
We are dealing with this petition. We cannot introduce new elements.
I know, but the petition calls for a change in the appeals procedure. That suggests that we should examine the appeals system.I would like to know how often local authorities' decisions have been overturned by the Scottish Executive. I recognise that I could ask that question as an individual, but the request might be more powerful if it came from the committee. We could use that information to advance the petition.
When we refer the petition to the Executive, we could ask that question.
I would like to see information for the past few years to determine whether a trend is developing.
We will ask for information on the three most recent years for which figures are available. That would help us to reach a decision about what to do. As I said, many similar petitions are languishing at the moment.
We might have to exercise a degree of caution because decisions that are taken by an area committee are regularly called in by the regional committee and are occasionally overturned. If we are critical of the Scottish Executive, we must have regard for what is happening further down the line.
I agree. I do not think that we should remove from the Executive the right to reconsider local authorities' planning decisions. The petitions that we have been dealing with simply call for a third-party right of appeal against the decisions taken by the Executive. The Scottish Parliament should pursue that issue and this committee should support the calls for that right.
The committee can call for a debate in the chamber. If we have had an awful lot of petitions on this subject, it might be helpful to use that facility.
That is part of the point of writing to the Executive again. As well as asking for the information that Phil Gallie requested, we could point out that we are concerned that the petitions are not being addressed by the Executive or the committees and that, as we are considering applying for a debate on the subject, we would like to know the Executive's views.
I apologise for being late, convener. I agree with what you said. Given that we had European parliamentarians here the other week, perhaps we ought to encourage some of the people who come before us to explore what the European Parliament Petitions Committee would say given that all are equal before the law and are entitled, without discrimination, to equal protection under the law. That is part of the European convention on human rights. If people's issues are not addressed in this Parliament, there is another avenue to explore in the European Parliament Petitions Committee.
Yes. It is open to any petitioner to pursue petitions with the European Parliament. In the letter to the Executive, we could ask whether it thinks that the fact that people in Scotland do not have a third-party right of appeal in planning decisions is consistent with the ECHR. That may help with any approach to the European Parliament. Is it agreed that we take that action, with all the various requests to the Scottish Executive as suggested?Members indicated agreement.
I thank the witnesses for coming here this morning.
In this meeting
Everything on 20 Nov 2001 →- Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee Tuesday 20 November 2001 (Morning) Petitions · 2
- New Petitions Petitions · 35
- New Petitions Petitions · 53
- New Petitions Petitions · 40
- New Petitions Petitions · 27
- New Petitions Petitions · 3
- New Petitions Petitions · 1
- New Petitions Petitions · 3
- Current Petitions Petitions · 3
- Current Petitions Petitions · 2
- Current Petitions Petitions · 1
- Current Petitions Petitions · 3
- Current Petitions Petitions · 1
- Consultative Steering Group Principles Committee business · 9
- Convener's Report Procedure · 2
The type of each item (debate, statement, questions, members’ business and so on) and the times shown are worked out by this site from headings, the chair’s opening words and the Official Report’s running timestamps. They are not the Parliament’s own classification. Text: the Scottish Parliament Official Report.