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New Petitions

Tuesday 25 April 2000 Public Petitions Committee Petitions 257 contributions · 20 speakers

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The record

257 contributions · showing 201–257
Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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It will not affect existing ones from which adults and children are in probable danger. We all know the history of private companies pushing their wares and not caring a button about the population. I am slightly changing the request in the petition, as there would be difficulty in changing any planning arrangements that have been agreed by the democratically elected councils. However, we feel that there is a strong enough case, as a breach of safety and trust has occurred.The system whereby the planning authority gains financially from agreeing to the masts should be changed. Glasgow City Council is continuously crying out that it is underfunded, and will take any opportunity to make money. We think that that is an unsatisfactory system. Sites should be agreed by an independent organisation. I do not know whether you know, but equipment has been purchased to enable checks on hot spots that are reckoned to come from such masts and which can be of possible danger to people. As the photographs show, people live right around the mast. There are children in those houses, yet the residents had no say in the matter—and this is supposed to be a democracy.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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I have to inform you that this committee can deal only with the petition, which relates to whether the report from the Transport and the Environment Committee should be applied retrospectively.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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Yes, but the petition asks for a retrospective change to be made. That is why I have said that the chief executive, James Andrews, should be formally requested to reconsider the matter. People were tricked by a discredited system that was set up by Westminster, which was pushing a new technological system without a care in the world about what the effects on people might be. The council should be required to go through the process again so that people can get a proper understanding of what the hell it is all about.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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Was the neighbourhood notified about the fact that the mast was to be erected? Did the community have time to object?

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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The company that erected the mast, James Barr and Son, sent a letter informing us of planning consent for the construction of access steps and the erection of an entrance gate and a hand rail. I did not think too much about the letter as there already are steps into the park. People really had no inkling of what was happening.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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The company notified the community that steps and so on would be constructed, but did not mention the mast.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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Yes. Some people—I think about three houses out of the 15—did not even receive that letter. The way that the system operated in this case, and probably in others, was totally unsatisfactory. My community is taking a very democratic approach. Another community took direct action and broke up the mast.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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I am asking this committee to get James Andrews to go through the process again as it was entirely faulty, breached safety regulations and did not tell people anything. We cannot go to anybody else for help.

Sandra White SNP Glasgow
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Convener, could we pass this to the Local Government Committee as well? I am concerned about the fact that there does not seem to be any legislation on neighbourhood notification or on the height of telecommunications masts. It does not seem right that planning permission is required for a 6 ft high fence, but not for a mast that is more than 15 m high.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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The mast that I am talking about is 12 m high.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The report deals with issues such as height and planning permission. The initial recommendation on this petition was that we should pass it to the Transport and the Environment Committee and ask the committee to explain why it did not say in its report that the new laws should apply retrospectively. We should do that, but I do not think that we can involve other committees at this point. We can certainly write to the council enclosing a minute of this discussion, asking it to explain why it failed to take the necessary steps; then we could consider which committee to send the petition to.

Christine Grahame SNP South of Scotland
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Would it be better for us to go straight to the Executive, as it is already considering what the Transport and the Environment Committee said, and ask it to consider retrospective planning controls? There has to be a level playing field if the Executive changes planning controls for those masts that are already there. We can inform the Transport and the Environment Committee, or would that upset that committee?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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If I was the convener of the Transport and the Environment Committee, I would be upset.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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If we refer the petition to the Transport and the Environment Committee, we can ask it to explain why it did not include retrospective application of the new law.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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But would the committee not come back to you and say, "We can't change what has been a planning consent?"

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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It may, but when it does it will be for this committee to decide whether it is happy with the response. In the meantime, we should write to the council, explaining our concerns about the situation.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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People would be happy with that.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Once we get a reply from the council, we can decide what to do.

John Scott Con Ayr
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We should decide what to do in conjunction with the response from the Transport and the Environment Committee. That is the obvious thing to do.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement.

Lionel Hawes Kingspark and Croftfoot Community Council
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May I leave these photographs with you?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Give them to the clerk.We now turn to petition PE164 from Sibylle Alexander. This petition deals with the ages for starting nursery and school.

Sibylle Alexander
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Good afternoon. I am happy to be here. It has been a fascinating afternoon. My father was a judge in civil law in Hamburg, and he had a lot of similar questions, so I have found this meeting interesting.

Sibylle Alexander
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I hope before I am dead that the children of Scotland have the same practical experience as do children in Europe, who start school at six or seven. Their vitality is far greater. They have a much more broad education. The health service in Scotland would save millions of pounds.I can give you examples. When children start school at four or five, boys are bored. They want to kick or tramp or climb trees. They want to experience life. At school, they are going to sleep. Our doctors have found that after six months in school, children no longer have any deep breathing. That means that they have shallow breathing in their chest. They have bronchitis. Do you know how many hours are lost because of bronchitis and asthma in Scotland alone? Little girls are diligent. Even at four they can usually hold a pencil. They are writing. But what happens? They get arthritis. A doctor told me, "Four at school, 40 in a wheelchair." We have 40,000 wheelchair users, and it is completely unnecessary.A child who starts school at six or seven will learn reading, writing and arithmetic far more easily. Childhood is development in phases. The first seven years are needed to build a strong body. Children need plenty of movement and fresh air, good food and no pressure. They need time, leisure and rich verbal input. I am a writer. Here you can see my book of Scottish and Irish stories. A wealth of oral tradition in Scotland is lost because people use the most stupid readers—excuse that expression—in primary schools. Children are too small to read reasonable things. They cannot read, content-wise, anything that is meaningful. That leads to what I have termed frustrated beginners.Why do people play truant? Because they are bored. What is given to them is wrong. They are absolutely right to protest against school at four. I put my petition to our Borders Liberal Democrats, and I was amazed. It had 100 per cent support. Fathers said, "Our daughter is ruined because she started school at four and a half." You cannot repeat what you have lost in the early years of childhood.School should start at six, but in a way that is rhythmical, that is rich in oral work and that still gives a lot of movement. That is why I do not call it a nursery but a kindergarten—a garden for children, where they can be outside, where they can have a sandpit, where they can get to love this earth on which we work, where they can have a swing to really experience courage and where they can have the circle time, the story time and the social interaction. I believe that that would make Scotland a very much happier place. As I said, before I am deid I want to see it.I have here some interesting work that was done in Nordrhein-Westfalen on kindergarten workshops. Naturspielräume means creating in a very small space. A small child is quite happy in a small space with a Wendy house, a little hill for running up and down, a few trees and shrubs and a sandpit. They do not need much space, but the children should be outside for a lot of their time. I hope that all of that will come. If it does not come now, it will come. Parents are already writing to Brussels. There is a fantastic organisation called A Right to Childhood. This is a human rights issue: we need to delay formal learning. That is my spiel.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Thank you very much. We have also received two letters in support of your petition. Your petition is fairly radical, although perhaps not as radical as ideas that I heard when I was at teacher training college in the 1970s.

Sibylle Alexander
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I was at Moray House for 20 years.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Some people called for the abolition of schools altogether.

Sibylle Alexander
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No. I believe in good schooling and strict discipline.

Christine Grahame SNP South of Scotland
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I have a lot of sympathy with what you say. Like John, I am a former schoolteacher, although I have since become a lawyer. This is an interesting issue to be raised for the Education, Culture and Sport Committee. It is refreshing to consider what our European neighbours achieve. You are talking about another kind of education before the age of formal education, a more natural and child-centred education.

Sibylle Alexander
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If children learned more of the important social skills, we would not need all the dustbin men. Switzerland is clean. Children learn in kindergarten to be aware of their surroundings and to be proud of the country.

Christine Grahame SNP South of Scotland
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It is very interesting, and there is European practice that we could look at to see whether a better generation of children could come out of it.

Sibylle Alexander
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May I read an amendment of the Scottish National party Inverness conference in September 1999?

Sibylle Alexander
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Would you like to hear it?

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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There are only two SNP members here so the rest do not know what it is.

Sibylle Alexander
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It has only four lines."In order to decrease inequalities and failure at an early age, Conference calls on the SNP group to work towards changing the starting age of formal education to 6 years in line with our European neighbours and in line with the increasing body of research in this area".

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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You are probably in danger of losing the support of the majority of the committee.

Sibylle Alexander
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I am not SNP, I am quite liberal. Mr Jenkins fully supports my petition. Is anyone interested in looking at some of our beautiful stuff? Probably not, but shall I leave it?

Sibylle Alexander
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These articles contain some modern ideas, because they are still learning in Germany too.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Anything that can improve Scottish education is worth while. The recommendation is that the petition should be passed to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee for its consideration.The next petition is PE155. A petitioner, the Reverend James Stewart, was scheduled to speak to the committee in support of the petition, which is about the retention of section 2A of the Local Government (Scotland) Act 1986. Unfortunately, he cannot be here.Since petitions PE155, PE161 and PE162 were received, we have received a further petition from the Keep the Clause campaign, which was handed to members on arrival at the meeting today. The petition contains 120,000 signatures. It is suggested that it be grouped with the others that deal with section 2A. It has also been suggested that we refer this to the Local Government Committee to note, and to take into account with the other evidence that the committee is taking in respect of the bill that is currently before Parliament. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Petition PE160, on health and safety, is from Ian Allen, on behalf of the joint trade union safety representatives at the Trades Union Congress occupational health and safety course at Stow College. It sounds like it may have been a college exercise. The petitioner suggests that in the light of the increase in workplace accidents, there is a need for a safety culture to be developed from secondary school level. The petition asks the Parliament to pursue that. It is suggested that we refer the petition to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee for its consideration.

Pauline McNeill Lab Glasgow Kelvin
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I am not against sending the petition to that committee, although I am conscious of the number of petitions that we are sending there. I recollect that Cathy Jamieson has lodged a motion on health and safety. I cannot remember what it says, but many people signed up to it. As quite a few MSPs have signed the motion, it might be an idea to send a copy of it to the petitioners, to show that we take the matter seriously already. Although health and safety is a reserved matter, we can take on board the point about creating a health and safety culture.

John Scott Con Ayr
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It is an especially good idea, so it should go somewhere where it can be addressed positively.

Christine Grahame SNP South of Scotland
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Rather than giving the petition to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee—although it could be sent to that committee for information—I would send it only to the Minister for Children and Education for comment. He may wish to respond to it as an idea. That would spread the load a bit for committees and ministers.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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We could agree to send a copy of Cathy Jamieson's motion to the petitioner. I should sign it before it is sent. I tend not to sign motions.The other action is to send this petition to the minister, asking for a response, with a copy to the Education, Culture and Sport Committee for its information.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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Are members agreed?Members indicated agreement.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The next petitions are PE163 from Owen Connelly and PE166 from Strathmartine Women's Rural Institute, on the closure of sub-post offices. We have had a number of petitions on this matter, and they should go to the Rural Affairs Committee. We received a letter from Alex Neil, suggesting that this petition should also go to the Social Inclusion, Housing and Voluntary Sector Committee. I have no problem with that, but Alex Neil is a member of that committee and he should raise the matter with it. The request should come from the committee rather than from individual members. We should suggest that to Alex; otherwise, members of every committee will do the same.Petitions such as this generally go to the Rural Affairs Committee and the Enterprise and Lifelong Learning Committee, because they are actively considering these issues. Are members agreed?Members indicated agreement.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The next petition is PE170 from Mr McNeil, on behalf of Partick community council. This petition relates to Glasgow City Council creating a new bus lane corridor through Dumbarton Road, Partick. We have already had a similar petition on this issue from the Partick Traders Association. That petition has been referred to the council, which is taking it into consideration as part of the process of consultation. It is suggested that we send the petition as quickly as possible to Glasgow City Council so that it can also be taken into consideration by the council as part of its bus corridor consultation. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement.

John McAllion Lab The Convener · Dundee East
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The final petition today is from the residents of Ballater, with 360 photocopied signatures. It is about the proposed closure of the Ballater area council office. That is one of the cuts arising out of the problems that Aberdeenshire Council is having, trying to get within expenditure guidelines. The petitioners are upset that the council wants to close down the office. It is suggested that the clerks should write to Aberdeenshire Council, requesting its comments on the matter. Once we have a response, we could pass it on to the petitioner. The correspondence could be copied to the Local Government Committee for its information. Is that agreed?Members indicated agreement.

  1. Scottish Parliament Public Petitions Committee Tuesday 25 April 2000 (Afternoon) Petitions · 6
  2. New Petitions Petitions · 257
  3. Current Petitions Petitions · 66
  4. Convener's Report Procedure · 2

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