Parliament Workbench
Data: Official Report to 12 Nov 2026

Official Report · Committee

Petitions

Greater Glasgow NHS Board (Consultation) (PE453)

Wednesday 22 May 2002 Health and Community Care Committee Petitions 14 contributions · 7 speakers

Speakers

Choose an MSP to read only their contributions

The record

14 contributions
Margaret Smith LD The Convener · Edinburgh West
link

Agenda item 3 is our regular petitions report. The first petition is PE453, which is from Fr Stephen Dunn and calls on the Scottish Parliament to carry out a full review of the process of consultation with local communities regarding the siting of the proposed secure unit in the Greater Glasgow NHS Board area.The Parliament considered a previous petition on the matter. Committee members will recall that that was one of the first pieces of work that the committee did. At that time, we decided—as we have consistently decided since—that the Health and Community Care Committee's role is not to make the decisions that health boards should make after consulting local communities. However, we also decided that we would consider issues of national strategic relevance and importance that are raised by local situations.In the case of the Stobhill secure unit, we took that approach and produced specific recommendations relating to consultation with communities on new developments. When Dr Richard Simpson produced his report on behalf of the committee, we found that some of the guidance that boards were following was 25 years old.We are now faced with a new petition that has been submitted to the Public Petitions Committee. That committee has referred the petition to us and asked us to consider it in the light of our previous work on Stobhill. We are also asked to consider whether progress has been made on the issue of consultation. I ask John McAllion whether that is a fair reading of the intention of the Public Petitions Committee in referring the petition to us at this stage?

John McAllion Lab Dundee East
link

Like the Health and Community Care Committee, the Public Petitions Committee views the location of the secure unit as a matter for Greater Glasgow NHS Board in which we should not intervene. However, a number of MSPs, led by Paul Martin, have complained that the second scoring exercise that Greater Glasgow NHS Board conducted was unfair and preordained to select Stobhill. The Public Petitions Committee believes that the Health and Community Care Committee should check whether proper consultation was carried out or whether there was skulduggery by the health board to ensure that Stobhill became the eventual location for the secure unit. The MSPs to whom I referred take the view that the exercise was fixed and that there was not proper and fair consultation. It is for the Health and Community Care Committee to decide whether that is the case.

Margaret Smith LD The Convener · Edinburgh West
link

From reading the papers, I am aware that two members of the committee—Janis Hughes and Dorothy-Grace Elder—are mentioned in dispatches. I am sure that other members, such as Nicola Sturgeon, will have a particular interest in the petition, because it relates to Glasgow.We can probably do two things. First, we could pursue the points that John McAllion has made and focus on consultation. Secondly, we could take the opportunity to revisit the recommendations that we made in our report on the previous Stobhill petition and ask the Executive what progress it has made on those more general points. Given that the Executive has a locus in the matter, we could ask it to indicate whether it is able to support the methodology that was used by Greater Glasgow NHS Board and to say whether that methodology had been used satisfactorily elsewhere. There seem to be questions about the methodology that the health board used, although I am not an expert on large-scale public consultations. I am open to suggestions from members.

Janis Hughes Lab Glasgow Rutherglen
link

I was not a member of the Health and Community Care Committee when originally it discussed issues relating to the consultation that was carried out by Greater Glasgow NHS Board. However, given the input that I have made over the past three years into consultation relating to the Glasgow acute services review, as well as to secure care issues, I feel qualified to speak on the matter.Consultation has proved to be very difficult in Glasgow. During both consultations on the location of the secure unit, a number of members have felt that appropriate process was not used. Regardless of the process used, the views that were expressed by local people were not taken into account in the final outcome, which has given rise to considerable concern. Last week, together with other MSPs and people from the areas that we represent, I met the minister specifically to discuss consultation and how it is affecting health care in Glasgow.I accept that the committee decided that it was not appropriate for it to discuss specific issues, because they were for the co-providers of services to discuss. However, it is such a wide matter and it is causing problems elsewhere in Scotland. At the end of the day, Scottish ministers have the final say in relation to decisions that are being proposed as a result of so-called consultation processes, so the Scottish Parliament has a locus in discussing the matter. The Health and Community Care Committee should have a role in any discussions. I would like to hear other members' views on that.

Nicola Sturgeon SNP Glasgow
link

I agree. The problem of consultation—not only in Glasgow, but in Glasgow in particular—is becoming acute. People feel that consultation processes are a sham; the health board goes through the motions then does what it wants regardless. That is what people think about the Stobhill proposals and the acute services review. Leaving the substance of the issues aside, the consultation process is a matter for the Health and Community Care Committee. I would be keen for the committee to question Greater Glasgow NHS Board about the consultation process and to allow it the opportunity to explain why it thinks that that was a meaningful exercise. Once we have heard from Greater Glasgow NHS Board, it would be appropriate for the Health and Community Care Committee to take evidence from Malcolm Chisholm on the wider issue of consultation and how health boards interact with the public. It is an issue of general concern and we should address it.I was not a member of the committee when the first report was prepared. However, the report made several recommendations and it would be appropriate for us to find out whether any of the committee recommendations have been progressed in the context of Stobhill. I do not want to prejudice an investigation of that, but I suspect that the recommendations have not been implemented.

Dorothy-Grace Elder Ind Glasgow
link

I agree with all that. There is an illusion of progress, which we must look behind. I have been involved in the matter from the beginning—it began with something that seemed to be nothing. However, after the committee complained and after Richard Simpson's report, things seemed to improve in that there was better advertising of public meetings and so on. However, we are still on the same track, which was heading towards Stobhill right from the beginning. The scoring situation was so bad that councillors from beyond Glasgow walked out, never mind that the Glasgow MSPs were extremely upset.There is currently a non-consultation situation in relation to Queen Margaret hospital in Dunfermline. There was a similar situation at Stracathro, and so on. The Executive and the Parliament must provide input. As the petitioner has stated several times, it is a case of the quango against the people.

Ben Wallace Con North East Scotland
link

It is nice to be back. Ironically, this is the topic that the committee was discussing when I left.

Margaret Smith LD The Convener · Edinburgh West
link

We have done some work in your absence, Ben.

Ben Wallace Con North East Scotland
link

Nicola Sturgeon made a good point. We should ask Greater Glasgow NHS Board and the Scottish Executive to tell us how they have followed through the recommendations of the Health and Community Care Committee's report. It sounds as though they have not pursued that. Janis Hughes was also correct. The minister set up the acute services review group to consider an overall strategy for Scotland, but we have not heard much about that over the past two years. I lodged a question asking how many times the group has met, but that is about all I know. The group is supposed to give the final say on issues such as acute services, mental health and Stobhill. If recommendations have not been implemented, ministers are entitled to say that that is not good enough and to send the health board back to the drawing board.

Margaret Jamieson Lab Kilmarnock and Loudoun
link

I suggest that we make space on our calendar to take evidence form the Greater Glasgow NHS Board and the minister.

Margaret Smith LD The Convener · Edinburgh West
link

One of the issues that the background papers on the petition raise is that a number of different organisations, such as the Glasgow north action group, have been involved part of the time, but not at other points. A number of MSPs have been involved for prolonged periods and have then boycotted parts of meetings for reasons that are obvious to them, bearing in mind what they felt about consultation.We need guidance about from whom to seek views. We should seek the views of the petitioner, but I wonder whether it would also be worth the committee's while to seek the views of the original petitioners, whom I think were from the action group, if we are to revisit the original petition. If it were acceptable to them, they could come in and give the committee joint comments, as new petitioners and as petitioners from whom we have heard in the past. Do members agree that we should take oral evidence on the petition?

Members indicated agreement.

  1. Scottish Parliament Health and Community Care Committee Wednesday 22 May 2002 (Morning) Committee business · 1
  2. Items in Private Procedure · 2
  3. Subordinate Legislation Subordinate legislation · 7
  4. Subordinate Legislation Subordinate legislation · 2
  5. Subordinate Legislation Subordinate legislation · 2
  6. Petitions Petitions · 14
  7. Petitions Petitions · 2
  8. Petitions Petitions · 2
  9. Petitions Petitions · 4
  10. Petitions Petitions · 7
  11. Petitions Petitions · 1
  12. Petitions Petitions · 2
  13. Petitions Petitions · 8
  14. Petitions Petitions · 2
  15. Petitions Petitions · 10
  16. Petitions Petitions · 7
  17. Petitions Petitions · 9

The type of each item (debate, statement, questions, members’ business and so on) and the times shown are worked out by this site from headings, the chair’s opening words and the Official Report’s running timestamps. They are not the Parliament’s own classification. Text: the Scottish Parliament Official Report.