Parliament Workbench

Petition · PE01603 · Session 4

Ensuring greater scrutiny, guidance and consultation on armed forces visits to schools in Scotland

Closed Submitted 16 Feb 2016 Education
Signatures
0
1,027 online signatures with a country
Comments
52
Considered
10 meetings
in the Official Report

What it asks

Calling on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to ensure that:
Guidance is provided on how visits to schools by the armed forces should be conducted so that information presented to children takes account of the unique nature of armed forces careers, ensures political balance, and offers a realistic representation of the role of the armed forces and what a career in the armed forces involves.
Information is collected to enable public monitoring of the number and location of visits, the purpose and content of visits, and comparison with the number of visits by other employers.
Parents/guardians are consulted as to whether they are happy for their child to take part in armed forces activities at school.

What the petitioner did first

We have raised these issues and our concerns with Scottish education authorities at government and local level, and with other education bodies and various MSPs. The responses from the Scottish Government and local authorities show there is a lack of clarity regarding the nature of armed forces visits to schools, and who is responsible for overseeing them, which makes it impossible for our concerns to be addressed.
Education Scotland told us that there was no government policy or guidelines regarding armed forces visits to schools, as this is for local authorities to decide. They also told us that they "provide support for teachers, and identify and share good practice…it is up to the school, working with its local authority, to decide how political discussions will take place with learners. Our political literacy resource considers the sensitive handling of controversial issues." However, our research has found that this provision for balanced discussion is inadequate.
We made Freedom of Information requests to all 32 local authorities, asking for information on their stance on armed forces visits to their schools, on how they ensure students encounter a balance of views during the visits, and on whether parents/guardians are always consulted on whether they are happy for their child to take part in the visit. 27 local authorities responded, 26 acknowledging that the armed forces visited schools in their area. None had a specific policy on the visits; many said it was down to schools or headteachers to develop their own. Several local authorities stated or implied that the visits had no recruitment or political element. Few provided any detail on how their schools ensured that students encounter a balance of views. Only Glasgow City claims to issue its schools with guidance, and this guidance is in fact very generic, simply stating "The public expects all employees to carry out their duties in a politically neutral way." Given that our research clearly demonstrates the recruitment agenda behind the visits, the political nature of some of the engagement, and that students are not always encountering a balance of views on the armed forces, this vagueness and inconsistency of practice is unacceptable. Around a third of the local authorities either do not consult parents/guardians about the visits, or leave this to headteachers' discretion, whereas given the concerns that the visits raise, parents/guardians must always be consulted.
Our correspondence with MSPs from a variety of parties, and with the Educational Institute of Scotland, the Scottish Parent Teacher Council, and the National Union of Students Scotland, revealed substantial concern on the issues. One MSP, and the first two bodies, have publically stated their concerns, but the Scottish Government and local authorities have not acted on them.
Lastly, individual Quakers in Scotland sympathetic to our petition have written to various local authorities and schools to raise our concerns, with mixed responses.

Where it was considered

Official Report
  1. 15 Sep 2016
    Public Petitions Committee
    New Petitions
    1 mention
  2. 24 Nov 2016
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention
  3. 2 Mar 2017
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention
  4. 20 Apr 2017
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention
  5. 25 May 2017
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention
  6. 9 Nov 2017
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petition
    1 mention
  7. 15 Mar 2018
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    8 mentions
  8. 17 May 2018
    Public Petitions Committee
    Decision on Taking Business in Private
    1 mention
  9. 8 Nov 2018
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention
  10. 5 Sep 2019
    Public Petitions Committee
    Continued Petitions
    1 mention

Signatures by country

1,027 online signatures
  1. Scotland621 60.5%
  2. United Kingdom259 25.2%
  3. England118 11.5%
  4. Wales7 0.7%
  5. United States5 0.5%
  6. Northern Ireland3 0.3%
  7. Isle of Man3 0.3%
  8. Netherlands2 0.2%
  9. Sweden2 0.2%
  10. Spain1 0.1%
  11. 6 other countries6 0.6%

Comments

52 comments, oldest first
52 comments · showing 1–50
  1. Owen Everett 16 Feb 2016
    I'm very glad that this petition has been launched. The research by ForcesWatch and Quakers in Scotland highlights the five main areas of concern very clearly
    - action is undoubtedly needed to increase scrutiny, guidance and consultation on these armed forces visits.
  2. Gordon mackie 16 Feb 2016
    Was surprised and very unaware at the level of this involvement .
  3. Sila Collins-Walden 16 Feb 2016
    I'm delighted about this petition!! I hope there will be a good result!!
  4. Clare Phillips 16 Feb 2016
    We are heartened that currently our local schools are not involved in armed forces recruitment. We pray that this continues and extends throughout Scotland.
  5. Jen Broadhurst 17 Feb 2016
    Our children ought not to be groomed to kill anyone elses children. Please stop this indoctrination of young minds.
  6. Helen Blackburn 17 Feb 2016
    Other careers don't get this kind of access to schools. The armed forces shouldn't get preferential treatment.
  7. Colin Archer 17 Feb 2016
    This is important work. Bravo.
  8. Alastair McIver 17 Feb 2016
    In my opinion, this does not go far enough. Armed forces visits to publicly-funded schools should simply not take place, and it quite terrifies me that they do.
  9. Robert Thompson 17 Feb 2016
    I fully support this petition. This subject has been an on going concern and worry for me during the past thirty five years I have been working in secondary school.. It is high time for a full and open debate about what is being permitted and what is not being permitted in our schools.
  10. Owen Everett 18 Feb 2016
    I should have added that I am the Education Worker at ForcesWatch, and was involved with the research behind the petition. See the ForcesWatch website for full information on the research.
  11. Bidge Graham 18 Feb 2016
    The level of militarisation in our society is beyond the pale. It cannot be allowed to pervade school life. Recruiting minors to the military is immoral and the UK is the only EU country that does it.

    To my mind this petition is only a starting as I firmly believe no armed forces visits should be allowed in our schools. However if implemented it would be a start.
  12. Robin Davis 18 Feb 2016
    Am against all MoD visits to schools, colleges and universitiies
  13. Diana Dower 18 Feb 2016
    I am deeply worried about the lack of balance in forces visits to schools. Parents and guardians should definitely be notified before a visit by any of the forces. Any visit should be balanced by a visit by a severely wounded member of the armed services. It is particularly of concern that youngsters who have not done well in school are likely to be recruited, especially those from areas of high unemployment. We do not wish our children reared to kill others.
  14. Wendy Erskine Anderosn 18 Feb 2016
    This is an utter disgrace. No one else would gain entry to schools to brainwash children. This nonsense of 'see the world and learn a trade and help people' is disgusting! Quakers should be doing a lot more than they have done so far in this nature.
  15. Simon Jackson 19 Feb 2016
    Philosphy and ethics must be taught in schools or children will not be making an informed choice. The need for balance in education would require an equal number of school vists for Peace groups including Quakers. Parents most certainly should be consulted and given the literature that supports these military visits in advance. The existance of the Militaty Covenant must also be explained, and the financial inducements offered to the councils that sign the covenant.
  16. ian cochrane 19 Feb 2016
    Our education institutions must remain De-Militarised Zones. Protect our children from the armed forces "child catcher" initiatives.
  17. Dr. Morag Josephine Grant 19 Feb 2016
    I am both involved in research into war and the military and a child rights activist. I am deeply concerned that the UK government continues to ignore appeals by human rights organisations, including interstate organisations, to fully uphold and respect the spirit of the Optional Protocol on the Convention of the Rights of the Child with regard to the age of recruitment of children. As a researcher on war I am also deeply concerned that children and young people are not being informed about the realities of warfare, and that the UK government is relying on young people who have not yet had the opportunity to access this type of information, as opposed to older people who have had more opportunity to understand the implications of a military career. The Scottish Government cannot stop this practice, but it can ensure that Scottish schools are places where children are educated about causes of war and the possibility of alternatives to war, and it can help ensure that every child leaving school has excellent chances for training and for a fulfilling career in whatever field, and that joining the Army should be a conscious option and not just the only route open to them. Young people who are thinking about a career in the Army need to be able to make a fully informed decision. We owe this to soldiers and to their loved ones and have to ask grave questions about our society if we are not willing to make sure that recruits understand absolutely what potentially awaits them.
  18. Kerstin Phillips 20 Feb 2016
    I strongly agree that parental written permission are required each time, not one permission to cover a whole academic year.
  19. Miss Sarah Louise Taddei 20 Feb 2016
    On attempting to share this petition on facebook, I found that the link to facebook doesnt work. Pls rectify this asap.
  20. Ann MacInnes 20 Feb 2016
    Post traumatic Stress and other disabilities and physical and mental illness are increased after time in the Armed Forces, especially when the people come from poor areas.
    I know this is not what you will tell the children, but it is what they and their families have to live when they come home-if they come home .
  21. Joseph Walls 22 Feb 2016
    I do not feel it is appropriate to encourage young people at such a influential age to join the army before they have even experienced life.
  22. Mary Woodward 22 Feb 2016
    I am very concerned that the MoD would appear to be targeting schools in deprived areas where there is little other employment and generally poor facilities, and offering the prospect of employment and training without necessarily informing young people of the risks involved and the constraints around leaving once they have 'signed up'. There should be employment and training opportunities which don't involve joining the armed forces.
  23. Anne Rado 22 Feb 2016
    Parents and guardians should not only be consulted in advance about these visits, but should also be invited to attend
    - and comment if they wish.
  24. Marian Hara 24 Feb 2016
    Although not resident at the moment I agree with the idea that there should be more balance and tranparency as in Wales.When I was in school in Glasgow we had military activities in the school which I found very unpleasant. As I live in a country which is moving toward more overseas military activity I am increasingly concerned about how children may be targeted, especially those from lower income families. I expect the Scottish government and education authorities to tread very carefully on this issue.
  25. tony martin 29 Feb 2016
    we could do with another petiton by 38deg to call for an end to under 18 recruitment. We are only country in europe that allows it i think,. It should be classed as abuse of children. Then we will see sparks fly.
  26. Marilyn Sansom 1 Mar 2016
    It is quite reprehensible that the Armed Forces are spending OUR taxpayers' money to promote a world for war, especially if there cannot be a counterbalancing view of peaceful ways of ending conflicts.
  27. Yvonne. Earl 2 Mar 2016
    Children need educated on cons and pros of armed forces
  28. Alastair McIver 6 Mar 2016
    This does not go far enough. In my view, Armed Forces visits to schools simply shouldn't happen.
  29. Margaret Peacock 7 Mar 2016
    I understand that local authorities are very short of cash for education, and may therefore welcome a military contribution to the school curriculum, especially the exciting outdoor activity which needs expensive equipment. This is an easy opportunity for military infiltration for the purpose of recruitment, implying a satisfying career but ignoring the moral considerations, the mental risks to immature brains, and the very real physical risks.
  30. Owen Everett 7 Mar 2016
    Thanks for the great comments everyone. Please carry on spreading the word about the petition, and about the events in Scotland next week to raise awareness about the issue
    - see the ForcesWatch website for details.

    Tony: such a petition exists! Search '38 degrees + armed forces recruitment 18'.

    Best wishes,
    Owen
    ForcesWatch Education Worker
  31. Ellen Colingsworth 7 Mar 2016
    There should be no visits to schools by the armed forces. School age children should not be influenced to make decisions about their role in war. At the very least, it should not be a glamourised, sanitised view of the actions of the armed forces.
  32. Michele Gunn 7 Mar 2016
    As a Quaker and a pacifist, I find it ethically unacceptable that children should be presented with publicity for a career in the armed forces as a "normal" career. Joining the armed forces is specifically committing to either directly killing other human beings, or assisting in the killing of human beings.It also, by the same token, commits to being killed. I doubt if those who present the armed forces as a career would spell out
    - or be allowed to spell out
    - these realities. Further, children under 18 should not be considered mature enough to take on the implied risks of taking other peoples' lives, or of losing their own.
  33. jim chestnut 8 Mar 2016
    there are 2 sides to every coin and the reality side of a career in the military is every bit as important to a young person as the gloss
  34. Margaret BoudrA 8 Mar 2016
    Wouldn't it be great if our armed for es were used to help people in other parts of the world instead of killing them in stupid wars and hence creating problems for years and years to come.
  35. Kareen A Rennie 8 Mar 2016
    I do not want Scottish children signed up by the UK Forces and used as cannon fodder!
  36. Gisela Creed 8 Mar 2016
    The armed forces should not be allowed anywhere to "advertise" or "recruit" in our schools
  37. Eddie Carroll 9 Mar 2016
    Go onto the Veterans for Peace website and learn.
  38. Claire Easingwood 9 Mar 2016
    As a retired teacher, I feel strongly about the way in which the Armed Forces exploit impressionable teenagers with their distorted version of what it will be like if they join up. I always opposed such school visits and fully support this campaign.
  39. Graham Peter King 10 Mar 2016
    I think that recruitment of those under the age of 18 should end. I consider it wholly inappropriate for military recruitment and what is effectively propaganda to be promoted in schools. Further, until this practice ends, I believe that parents should be given ample (previous term) advance notice of any planned visits by armed-forces personnel, to allow informed consultation and discussion among parents and school staff. Parents should have an option to withdraw their children from such activities (the school should provide suitable alternative arrangements) and children themselves should be told they may opt out if they wish.
    The content and style of any presentations should be made wholly transparent and on the record. Ideally pacifist and other non-belligerent groups should be given opportunity to present balancing viewpoints.
    The presentation of armed forces material should include open discussion of the consequences of war, including civilian and troop casualties and ramifications (maiming, death, post-traumatic stress disorder, difficulties in social adjustment back in civilian life)
    - some case studies would be useful) and also of the considerable protests and controversy concerning UK military involvements overseas.
    Children should not be treated as a captive audience to harness for war.
  40. James Mills 10 Mar 2016
    As a society we are too open to the propaganda pushed by the Armed Forces and the government. Our soldiers are being now being dubbed ''heroes'' by the government as a way of reducing criticism of their foreign policy catastrophes .
  41. joyce Minnis 12 Mar 2016
    I do not aprove of chiildren being influenced in this way
  42. James Johnstone 12 Mar 2016
    They should not be allowed in schools especially more so in poor deprived areas, As some of the kids see this as their only chance of escaping poverty and the only chance of getting a job!! hiring kids as bullet catchers for the rich mans wars!!
  43. Roxanne O'Neill 13 Mar 2016
    Children attend school, not only to learn, but because they are legally obliged to be there. They have no choice in what they are exposed to, they are a captive audience. Children deserve better than to have their time when they should be learning about the world, co-opted by recruitment officers looking for fresh young meat for wars these children have had no say in starting. It feels tantamount to grooming.
  44. Patrick Bealey 14 Mar 2016
    I support this petition 100%, on the basis that the provision of one-sided information to the young people in our country is irresponsible. There will be those, swayed into making a career in the forces and finding a very different reality to what they were led to believe. Those people, not a few in number, will be bitter, they will feel let down by those who should protect young people from unfair presentations, etc. We can do better, and please God, we will do better.

    In love and peace, Patrick
  45. jennifer broadhurst 15 Mar 2016
    unable to sign petition due to a server error please fix
  46. Rosie Kane 15 Mar 2016
    Army recruitment operating in places where children seek support and education is unethical. Masked within the promises of "training" " travel" "driving license" etc are the facts that children are being selected and groomed to kill. Children from working class areas are most vulnerable in the current economic climate. The lack of work and training housing and a decent future leaves many feeling that the forces are the way out of hopelessness and the MOD know this. The promise of food, bed , training and wage should be guarenteed without putting weapons in children's hands and hate in their minds. Please protect our children and let them learn about peace as opposed to bring conscripted into illegal wars.
  47. Rosie Kane 15 Mar 2016
    Allowing army recruitment officers into our schools is effectively abuse. Children in poorer communities are most vulnerable and in the current economic climate where work and training are limited it's easy to convince a child that they will access these rights via the armed forces. Children are not told by recruitment officers from MOD that they will be exposed to hate and horror and imperial wars. It us not explained that in return for the training , food, wage etc that they will be expected to become involved in the slaughtered of other children. They are not told about the cuts in MOD funding which leave front line vulnerable to injury and death. Instead children are promised a future that should already exist outside military service. Teach our children peace, diplomacy, understanding and care.
  48. Moderator 15 Mar 2016
    @ Jennifer Broadhurst
    - thanks for your comment and letting us know about the error you're getting when trying to sign the petition. We've asked our IT team to look into this for us. Please accept our apologies for this, we'd be happy to add your name to the petition for you. If anyone would like their names added then please email us via petitions@scottish.parliament.uk.
  49. Paul Cochrane 17 Mar 2016
    In a democracy, our Armed Forces are crucial but the joining of the organisation must be accompanied with real facts and not the glamorous and silky PR festivals that happen just now.
  50. Alex Thomson 18 Mar 2016
    I agree that the Armed forces, especially because of the hypocritical situation involving Syria, the situation in Iraq and other middle eastern countries, should not be asked to come to school in an attempt to glorify camaraderie when it is just following orders even though the orders may be morally wrong!
    In a society where we preach that violence is wrong but yet our government still favour war, its hypocrisy at the highest level!